Difficult horse decision *UPDATE*

[Pupsnpullets]

Quote:
Quite possibly you meant that literally, Onthespot, and I totally agree with you. Breeding from an ill mannered mare is not a good thing and passing her off to someone else and risk them or her being hurt wouldn't give me the warm fuzzies, either. Giving her to the rodeo, as someone mentioned, would be ok, but I think I would be inclined toward humane euthanasia and a year's supply of high quality dog food.

Edited for spelling

 

[B. Saffles Farms]

Quote:
Quite possibly you meant that literally, Onthespot, and I totally agree with you. Breeding from an ill mannered mare is not a good thing and passing her off to someone else and risk them are her being hurt wouldn't give me the warm fuzzies, either. Giving her to the rodeo, as someone mentioned, would be ok, but I think I would be inclined toward humane euthanasia and a year's supply of high quality dog food.

I totally agree with this. No need in passing a horse like this around. They are way to many of them out there now.

 

[patandchickens]

The sad thing is that the horse is quite likely to be very fixable IMO.

It is very frustrating that perfectly good horses -- and honestly I believe that virtually all horses are born perfectly good horses, I've seen plenty of evidence of it and next to none to the contrary -- so often are given up on, however sensible (or sometimes *necessary*) a decision it sometimes is economically.

It is unfortunately pretty easy to mess up a horse (some more so than others), much harder to fix 'em, plus there are things that can happen to a horse that aren't anyone's fault but still would require fixing to make the horse pleasantly or safely useable.

But you know what, projects are for people prepared to take on projects. If you need a confidence-building horse, a project is 95% of the time a really bad idea and tends to end up with both parties just getting their problems worse-ingrained.

And in the real world, economics DOES matter. We live in an imperfect world, unfortunately, without infinite amounts of money, time, space, skills, etcetera. And an unuseful unhelpful horse costs just the same to feed as a useful helpful one does. There is seldom a perfect solution; sometimes you have to just consider the feasible ones and pick the least-bad choice.

Pat

 

[ninny]

rodeo or dog food

 

[jay1995]

Quote:
Quite possibly you meant that literally, Onthespot, and I totally agree with you. Breeding from an ill mannered mare is not a good thing and passing her off to someone else and risk them are her being hurt wouldn't give me the warm fuzzies, either. Giving her to the rodeo, as someone mentioned, would be ok, but I think I would be inclined toward humane euthanasia and a year's supply of high quality dog food.

I totally agree with this. No need in passing a horse like this around. They are way to many of them out there now.

Thats just REDICULOUS. What would you do when you have a kid who is crazy and stuff like that are just gonna take it to the doctor and say "well doc hes just a pain, id like to humanly euthanize him" NO Are you crazy???? You dont just put down a innocent animal. She needs work but does NOT NEED TO BE PUT DOWN!!!! If you send her away to be rebroke, than youll get her back and a kid could ride her. Mares are always pushy and such there MARES. I understand about the bucking but I beg you to not pt that animal down. You can sell her just give a FULL description and past. Someone will take her as a pasture horse, or so what they said DOES NOT HAPPEN. Or send her to a horse rescue. I will find a horse rescue near if youd like just dont kill this animal. Iwill just post them anyway. And for yall up there you need to do a little research on horses and when it is nessacery to put ANY animal down!!!!

 

[B. Saffles Farms]

Quote:

I totally agree with this. No need in passing a horse like this around. They are way to many of them out there now.

Thats just REDICULOUS. What would you do when you have a kid who is crazy and stuff like that are just gonna take it to the doctor and say "well doc hes just a pain, id like to humanly euthanize him" NO Are you crazy???? You dont just put down a innocent animal. She needs work but does NOT NEED TO BE PUT DOWN!!!! If you send her away to be rebroke, than youll get her back and a kid could ride her. Mares are always pushy and such there MARES. I understand about the bucking but I beg you to not pt that animal down. You can sell her just give a FULL description and past. Someone will take her as a pasture horse, or so what they said DOES NOT HAPPEN. Or send her to a horse rescue. I will find a horse rescue near if youd like just dont kill this animal. Iwill just post them anyway. And for yall up there you need to do a little research on horses and when it is nessacery to put ANY animal down!!!!

First of all, NO need to start gettin all fussy. You need to realize we are talking about AN ANIMAL, NOT A KID. Thats a stupid comparison.

Ive had horses all my life broke and trained lots of them. I know what Im doing when it comes to problem horses. I have corrected many of them. So dont tell me I need to do research on horses. The reason the horse market is what it is today is there are WAY to many culls out there. Some horses just dont ever make anything. Its part of life. You dont have to agree with it, but its true.

 

[Tn Gamebirds]

Most horse rescues are FULL and won/cant accept any more animals.

You people should of thought ahead about what you were going to do with all these unwanted horses. Before doing away with all the slaughter houses for horses.

It is better for the crippled unwanted horses to go to slaughter than to stand around and STARVE to death. Because there owners can no longer afford to feed them. Whether it because they have lost there jobs or other reasons

 

[jay1995]

www.wncr.org/ www.thehorseshelter.org/ www.perfectharmony-nm.org/ Please take a look. Please give a call if you want to get rid of her. Im gonna pm you somethin. Thanks, -Jay

 

[onthespot]

Jay, I respect you for posting your opinion. I have had horses for 45 years now... i don't need a lecture from you about what is worth putting effort into and what is not. I have seen people killed by horses like that. I have almost been killed several times by horses like that. (Some of us are slow learners, me included.) I have seen horses like that kill themselves, pull barn walls down, kick out trailer doors while going down the road, jump out of open stock trailers and cause a pile up of cars behind them. I have seen good people crippled and lose everything trying to make something out of a no good nothing turd pile of a horse. Not all horses are suitable to modern use. Fifty years ago, mostly it was horsemen breeding horses, and doing the culling. The past fifty years has seen horses go from a neccesary useful animal to a money sucking hobby and status symbol, to a tax shelter and on and on, which set up different financial and emotional incentives for people to breed, train and keep horses which back in their "using" days would have been sent to "horseie heaven" (whatever that means to you) a LONG time before it got to this point. I just beg to differ. It is POSSIBLE that this mare could be "brought back" but at what expense and risk? Is ANYONE morally obligated to spend thousands of dollars and risk life and limb and livelihood to make a mare do something she just was not cut out to do, from either a genetic or environmental causes. NO!

 

[Tralea]

Hi there, I am a 52 yr old woman with so many chronic aches and pains from 30 years of being stepped on, rolled on, rolled over, bucked off and ejected from the pilot's seat (without the seat or parachute) at what, seemed like, 100 miles an hour! Most of these happened in the latter part after returning from an, obviously too long, hiatus. I realized riding a horse is not like riding a bicycle. You lose your confidence and that's when it gets dangerous! You may appear like a pillar of stone to anyone watching but that slight tremor in your hand, that would barely rate on the richter scale, is like a lightening bolt travelling through the reins. The fact that your husband, who sounds quite experienced, cannot do anything with this mare tells me you've been had...big time! And don't feel bad, it's happened to us all! I can guaran-darn-tee it...you are NEVER going to be able to ride this mare and if you try you ARE going to get hurt! Once that happens chances are you'll will never ride again, which would be such a shame considering the wonderful life-style you seem to have. (There's nothing I love more than working cattle!) Unfortunately, there's nothing lower than a scum-sucking, bottom-feeding horse dealer. I'd like to think that there are reputable ones out there but the fact is, if someone is making their living selling horses, they're ripping people off and endangering lives because good, sensible and safe horses are NOT a dime a dozen and alot of dangerous horses are sold incognito. DON'T GET ME WRONG...THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPUTABLE HORSE BREEDERS AND DEALERS. Alot of dealers don't even own a horse of their own. Horses may be a dime a dozen but so is a 3-leaf clover. Unfortunately, with your confidence level, you need a 4-leaf and although there's lots out there it takes patience and a lot of scrutinizing to find. You have received, in my opinion, some really good and BAD advice here. I say AMEN! to the lady who disagreed with getting a younger filly for 2 reasons..... young & filly. Horses are prey with no means of defense other than fleeing for their lives and bucking/kicking if the escape is not possible. They are nervous, if not terrified of anything new that comes into their space and what makes great horses are ones that have achieved confidence through a gentle, patient and experienced rider. I would strongly suggest a gelding, then you are not dealing with the monthly hormone rampage. I would rather be on a 3 yr old stud colt than some of the mares I've seen with PMS!! The last horse I owned being one of them. She was 1 of the best 2 horses I've ever owned and would walk through fire for me....25 - 27 days of the month. She would have liked to stomp me into the ground like a bug the other 3-4. It broke my heart when I had to put her down after 15 yrs, so much so I lost all passion to ride again. One of the other things I strongly agree with is ...you do not owe this mare anything! You have not done her one nano-ounce of injustice. The person who sold her to you and whoever "attempted" to train her did. It is not your fate to make it up to her with your broken bones or worse, life. Do not attempt to start from the "ground up" and work with her. You can spend the next year becoming her best friend on the ground but while she appears to be "connecting" with you, so are you with her. Then you are really going to feel guilty having to get rid of her when she stomps you into the ground again, and she will! Stay detached and get rid of her. I also agree with, and it breaks my heart to say it, the possibility of putting her down. FIRST...I would hire a good, reputable trainer to come and access her. If they think she's salvageable, they may help you can find an experienced rider, who welcomes the challenge and thinks there's hope for her although it may be at a price substantially lower than what you paid. Unfortunately, a sour horse isn't worth the dirt they're standing on unless yours has the potential as a brood mare and I highly doubt she is, regardless of breeding or appearance. There are a lot of breeders, me being one, who would never consider a mare with a bad dispositon. "The apple doesn't fall from the tree" is pretty accurate here. Everything a horse learns to fear and trust comes from his mother, handler and trainer. If any of these are idiots, he could be hooped. I would like to say, at this point, I am not, nor ever have been a "breeder". After training many of my own horses I decided to raise one of my own out of my last mare, Whisper. She always ruled in any line class she was in and had a heart of gold...except for those 3-4 days. I am proud to say my choice was bang on and raised an incredible colt out of her. He had all of her attributes, except the uterus ....thank God! The professional trainer I hired to start him, not wanting to screw up my so-far masterpiece, told me he was the nicest baby he had ever started. The reason I'm telling you so much about Whisper is after going through 3 horses, which I swear were all on the same team that hauled Satan's chariot through hell and were all recommended by professional, well-meaning friends. I was ready to hang up the saddle. Then I decided to try one more time, only on my own. My problem was my friends all thought I was a more than capable rider, along with instructors at clinics I had been going to. I was, but the ability to handle an 850 lb animal that depends on you for protection and confidence , doesn't mean squat when your sitting on them practically peeing yourself from fear. So, for what its worth, here is what "I" think you should do because it worked for me! Get rid of the mare...now! Do the responsible and humane thing for both her and potential victims. If she's not fixable chances are real good she will either seriously hurt or kill somebody, even if it's 3 people past you. Alot of times it's children of inexperienced parents. (If you're interested I can tell you about the horse I bought for my 11 yr old son that was "buted" when we tried her out - but that's another book!). On the other side of the coin, she may be passed from owner to owner who think they have the gonads and smarts to whip her ass into shape and show her who's boss. Neither of these are things you want on your conscience! I'm impressed that your husband does not seem to be one of these people - kudos to him! Find a good instructor and really let them know you're dealing with a confidence issue. Chances are, like me, you probably appear to have the abilty and probably do... but it's useless until you KNOW it! I found an instructor who did not know me (Whisper was an Appaloosa and she raised Quarter horses so we didn't travel in the same circles.) I told her I had only ridden a few times and she started me like a 10 yr old. I realized the pay off for down-sizing my experience was she thought I was a freakin' prodigy!!!! Start looking for a horse, my recommendation, a gelding about 7 - 10 yrs old raised and trained by professionals or experienced horse people. Really research the horse's parents. Names mean everything! I would stay away from anything with Thoroughbred in it, which alot of Quarter Horses and Appies do. While this breeding is beneficial to alot of people, it may not be for you. The ability to run 30 miles an hour for a good length of time is not what you're looking for. I would look for horses with lines of old working stock. Being in the States (I'm in Canada) you are probably able to find quite a few horses from the "King" Quarter horse line. They are my absolute favorite!! In my opinion, they are sensible, dependable and big-hearted with a ton of cow-sense...but that's only my opinion. NOTE: The Appie stud I used on Whisper had King breeding behind him. Now this one may raise a lot of eyebrows, but what the hell. My grandfather was a wonderful horseman and something he always use to say was "You always want a horse with a kind eye, that's the window to her heart". As I grew older and started hangin' with new and improved horse people, I also pshawed this away as dribble. When I saw Whisper for the first time, she was sporting a unkept, winter coat and looked like a unicorn with stick coming out of her butt. This was due to the fact her mane and tail were solid burdocks. But I was overcome by her eyes! They were gentle and kind as was her whole demeanor. I would to add that although not very well groomed, her feet were well taken care of as was her nutritional and comfort needs. These people bought her at a horse show for their 16 yr old son, who had never ridden before other than pony rides, as a 3 yr old...a potential disaster that worked out for both them and me! He rode her around for one summer bareback with nothing more than a halter on because she didn't want a bit in her mouth and eventually he moved to other things (girls I imagine, haha bet he regrets that move now!!!). These people , although inexperienced, were quite well off and very kind. Because of records they gave me to look at (he was an accountant so every expense right down to the last wood chip put in her stall was accounted for) I knew she was well-looked after. Now this is extremely important!!!! As much as I "felt" she was going to be perfect I had no idea how we would make out together with my "problem". Her background so far though was perfect. I told them I had spent the last 5 years going through horses due to us not being compatible and could not go through that again. It broke my heart everytime I had to pass a horse on due to my phobia. They never put her up for sale because they were terrified that she would not get a good home and would be passed around her whole life. Cleaning her up was easy....sort of...erasing bad memories is a lot harder but she none. I told them the only way I would take her was if I could give them a post-dated cheque and take her home for a month. I was estatic when they agreed as they didn't want her to end up with someone that didn't want her in a month's time. That was the key!! This proved to me they had nothing to hide. This took place in a small farming community in Nova Scotia where there is still a little trust and it was many years ago. Chances are you won't luck into the same situation but if you find a horse in breeding/training facility chances are very good they will allow you to pay the board for a month and even instruct you. They may even agree to lease it you and let you bring it home. Don't be surprised if they insist on trailoring and being reimbursed. This is fair but make sure its agreed upon that should you purchase the horse all money spent on your part is taken off the price, which has been agreed upon before you touch it. I guess it goes without saying, if it doesn't work out, they keep the money. And have it all in writing. Really make use of this time. Start out in a small pen and then move on to an arena or small, contained field. Baby steps...walk, trot/jog and don't leave this until you totally ready. If you try to move to fast and get into a jam the horse wins your in setback because the horse will not forget it until you replace that experience with one where you reclaim control. I know because this happened to me and it took a huge battle of the wills with an excellent instructor at a weekend clinic to reclaim my rightful seat. Do not be tempted or let anyone convince you to move away from your security blanket until you're ready, as tempting as it may be to go on a cow hunt with hubby for an afternoon. And yes, this is coming to an end!! As well-meaning and experienced your husband may be....keep him out of this! If this is going to be your horse, you and you alone have find it...sort of. He can accompany you but no persuasion!! You'll know it when it comes along. You won't need any coaching other than vet checks etc. Also, horses that have been left behind by kids that are still living, and are no worse for wear are great potential in my books. The fact Whisper was quiet and dependable in no way meant she was lazy. Everybody use to laugh at us when we were cattle penning because a group of us would be waiting at the end of the arena and talking. Her head was hanging to the ground with her ears straight out, sleeping, while I was sitting on top with one leg over the saddle horn with a cigarette in one hand and "soda pop" in the other. But as soon as it was our run and I picked up the reins she morphed into a totally different horse. She absolutely loved cows...more than horses! I sometimes mused that when she was born, a cow was beside them and for some reason she imprinted with her. And what her a great penning horse was the fact that the calves felt no threat from her. One day a friend of mine was beside me, laughing and making fun of us (he was a Quarter horse man) and said, "Cheri, what are you going to do when you lose that horse and have to get a real one?" to which I replied "I don't know....guess I"m going to have to learn how to ride" and that wasn't far from the truth!!! By the time her days were done, we were so finely tuned I couldn't imagine ever sitting on another horse and decided to take my doctor's advice from years before when I had taken a fall off a 4 yr Hanovarian, with way too many spooks for me, and broke my arm . He said, "Cheri, I think it's time to leave the young horses to the young girls."
Now, I would like to thank you and "fess up" because if this mini saga I've just written sounds self-serving, you're absolutely right! When I found your question, which honestly I can't even remember what it was now, I was looking for a message board with people who were about to, or recently had to put a dog down. Rocky, the little schnauzer in the pic has been my dearest companion for 12 yrs. I picked him out of 3 litters when he was 5 days old. After 3 weeks of endless hospitalization, blood work, x-rays, etc. he was diagnosed with a liver tumor last week. We have exhausted all avenues (believe me the money spent so far has not been menial, but doesn't touch the amount I'd pay) He has been given a month tops, but more likely 2 weeks of "quality" time at which point I will have to say goodbye. I cannot put into words my devastation and have no idea how I'm going to get through this. He is the longest "male" relationship I've ever had. (Thankfully I'm with a wonderful man now for 4 1/2 yrs) When I came across your message I thought I would send a "few" words of encouragement along with, what I hoped to be, some helpful advice from my experience. I totally knew what you're going through! I even joined a "chicken site" to write you...what a hoot! ...or should I say "cluck". Sorry, bad joke. Anyway, as I was writing I remembered how hard it was to say goodbye to Whisper and how I didn't think I would ever survive the pain. Writing about her has been so therapeutic for me remembering things I hadn't thought of in a long time and being able to smile and even laugh. I realized that this, too, will also come to pass and one day I will be able to write and laugh about my dear little "Rock A Man". But for now, as long as I keep writing, my thoughts are absorbed with this and I can watch him laying at my feet on his blanket and pretend nothing's wrong. It's easy to do because he's has been doing so well the last few days, playing and sassing me back every chance he gets. He's always been such an incessant talker ( I told you he was my PERFECT partner!) but for the last week I never tell him to shut up. In another week or so there will be nothing I wouldn't give up to hear his voice again. When I came out to BC 15 years ago I brought Whisper and a dear, sweet pitX named Molly. Rocky joined us shortly after. Molly (although having 3 breast cancer surguries in her last 5 years) lived to be 16 1/2 , Whisper got, what they think, was a brain tumor or aneurizm(??) and had to be put down at 21 and now Rocky. I'm all that's left of the original gang and would wish I'd gone before them if it weren't for worrying about who would take care of them. I still have a 3 yr old dog named Harley that I have to see through but have no idea how I'm going to find the strength to do it one more time. Their time goes so fast which is so cruel. Hey, I just had an idea....maybe I'll build a chicken coop in my backyard. How attached can you possibly get to a chicken? But just to make sure I'll get Bantams.....they're suppose to be miserable little turds that attack you all the time. I need pets that I'm happy to see go because this sucks!!!!!Once again, I'm so sorry for taking up all your message board, but thanks again and all the best to you. Go find your perfect horse and "git along lil dogie!!!".
OMG! I just read this back and realized how condescending it must sound. I'm sure that most of the what I've said you are well aware of and I apologize. As I said, it really was self-serving but I do hope you can find a morsel or two you can use. All the best!