Do they remember?

[Rooapalooza]

People tend to draw a weird line between humans and other animals, as if humans being (usually) more intelligent, makes us above the animal kingdom. Usually people give themselves too much credit and animals not enough. How much do people do based on instinct? Someone mentioned walking to the fridge repeatedly even though there isn't anything in it. I think it's pretty obvious in human groups that we form pecking orders. When humans meet new people, we always subconsciously or consciously determine who is dominant, a threat, an ally, a potential partner, etc. We have natural physiological reactions to other people, places, and things, based on our conscious or unconscious memories and associations. Our hormones control our moods and decisions in a huge way, as well.

Some people say that animals aren't aware of death. That doesn't seem true to me because I've seen videos of whales, monkeys, and elephants, grieving over lost members of their groups. I've seen my rooster calling and looking for missing members of my flock; same with brood-mates who lose one of their own. It doesn't look like grief in the same way, but if you've ever seen a broody hen freaking out over a chick in trouble, surely you can empathize with her? Why do we love our children if not out of instinct? How are human wars different from rival packs/flocks/dominant birds fighting for resources?

What makes humans special is the ability to self reflect, probably. I don't blame my chickens or my cat or a fox or a hawk when they kill, because they don't know better. We do; that ability gives us the responsibility to take care of each other, other animals, and the environment, since we are the only ones able. But we mostly don't do that? My point is that we are animals too. Incidentally, chicken brains are often used to simulate human brains in experiments, because they are so similar.

 

[NHMountainMan]

People tend to draw a weird line between humans and other animals, as if humans being (usually) more intelligent, makes us above the animal kingdom. Usually people give themselves too much credit and animals not enough. How much do people do based on instinct? Someone mentioned walking to the fridge repeatedly even though there isn't anything in it. I think it's pretty obvious in human groups that we form pecking orders. When humans meet new people, we always subconsciously or consciously determine who is dominant, a threat, an ally, a potential partner, etc. We have natural physiological reactions to other people, places, and things, based on our conscious or unconscious memories and associations. Our hormones control our moods and decisions in a huge way, as well.

Some people say that animals aren't aware of death. That doesn't seem true to me because I've seen videos of whales, monkeys, and elephants, grieving over lost members of their groups. I've seen my rooster calling and looking for missing members of my flock; same with brood-mates who lose one of their own. It doesn't look like grief in the same way, but if you've ever seen a broody hen freaking out over a chick in trouble, surely you can empathize with her? Why do we love our children if not out of instinct? How are human wars different from rival packs/flocks/dominant birds fighting for resources?

What makes humans special is the ability to self reflect, probably. I don't blame my chickens or my cat or a fox or a hawk when they kill, because they don't know better. We do; that ability gives us the responsibility to take care of each other, other animals, and the environment, since we are the only ones able. But we mostly don't do that? My point is that we are animals too. Incidentally, chicken brains are often used to simulate human brains in experiments, because they are so similar.

Very thoughtful and thought provoking.

Interesting, your thoughts on human pecking order. I find it absurd that anyone thinks that "bullies" will ever stop bullying. Ideally, that would happen. But all the same, I thought it important to teach my kids how to deal with bullies, not to hope that bullying would stop. I think I've used almost your same words in conversation with my kids (who think I'm absurd - a dinosaur - but then get surprised when they realize the world hasn't changed as much as they think it has...)

 

[Diana_burns04]

Love this video

 

[birdfreak1831]

Question with a introduction:

But now 3 weeks have passed. The dog has been on a ’holiday’ for a week with Xmas. And my chickens where locked up for week because we had a holiday around new years day.
Now the chickens go further away again when free ranging. Roaming around as before the dog issues.

Has this to do with forgetting or with loosing fear after a few weeks?

Hi BDutch,
Your birds` story in not uncommon.
Answer to your question I think is not the "either or" but an "and both".
Birds do remember beings and situations, they change their behavior after new learning and encounters, and they at times forget and remember again later.
As a human, I do all this myself, so do other humans.

My two young hens came to live with us in fall of 2018.
They were the last two bantam survivors out of a flock of about 30. The others were killed in short succession by several predators. Gracie and Phoebe were seriously traumatized and freaking out at everyone and everything, me included.
Every small "wild" bird terrified them.
Long story....they recovered and became tame and well adjusted.
The merger with the other three adult chickens occurred in a rather low key fashion later on.
They had long since learned they are safe now.

As with your dog experiences, change can take awhile, taking place only after the chickens figure things out. They can and they do.
Fear of dogs seems to be a prevalent reaction.
Mine were all scared of dogs but here is the catch : unless they get attacked and killed while free ranging, they will figure out the dogs eventually. They will remember too the result of different situations.
It is because of a number of beautiful predators hunting in our area that my bantams are not free ranging. It is too risky.
They live in a large multi-sectioned enclosure with a triple 6 foot fence and a double layered netting topping all.
Two neighborhood dogs [the hunting kind] skulked around the enclosures regularly checking for a way inside, I guess.
The little ones all huddled together as far away from the fencing as possible with the rooster taking the lead. All of them were screaming.
As time went by the dogs lost interest in the chickens [they couldn`t be had], and the chickens had learned/remembered that those critters posed no threat.
Finally, both parties stood on their respective side of the fence staring each other down for a moment before parting to pursue their own business.

We have gorgeous raptors here. Those DO NOT care to dive down on netting.
At the sight of one circling overhead the chickens ran for cover either into their coop and front room or underneath thick brush in two of the run sections, whichever they were closest to.
Then it dawned on them those raptors would not dive down to grab them through the netting.
Now the chickens stand together with their heads cocked sideways like a dog when a raptor flies above them. And they calmly watch!

One thing has always puzzled me about my banties` interactions with certain other creatures. Toads come to mind. In summer those appear from quarter size to palm-of-my-hand size. The small ones easily get inside the run, the big mothers will climb the fence [Had I not seen this myself I wouldn`t have believed it].
The chickens watch those toads with a rapt fascination but always give them a wide berth. They do not fear them but also distrust them it seems.
Omnivorous chickens are supposed to eat other critters besides insects, whatever they can throat down, even carrion.
Why are mine not catching the small toads and eating them?

Anyway, to observe chickens interact with other animals and learning and then remembering is interesting and revealing to me.

 

[birdfreak1831]

People tend to draw a weird line between humans and other animals, as if humans being (usually) more intelligent, makes us above the animal kingdom. Usually people give themselves too much credit and animals not enough. How much do people do based on instinct? Someone mentioned walking to the fridge repeatedly even though there isn't anything in it. I think it's pretty obvious in human groups that we form pecking orders. When humans meet new people, we always subconsciously or consciously determine who is dominant, a threat, an ally, a potential partner, etc. We have natural physiological reactions to other people, places, and things, based on our conscious or unconscious memories and associations. Our hormones control our moods and decisions in a huge way, as well.

Some people say that animals aren't aware of death. That doesn't seem true to me because I've seen videos of whales, monkeys, and elephants, grieving over lost members of their groups. I've seen my rooster calling and looking for missing members of my flock; same with brood-mates who lose one of their own. It doesn't look like grief in the same way, but if you've ever seen a broody hen freaking out over a chick in trouble, surely you can empathize with her? Why do we love our children if not out of instinct? How are human wars different from rival packs/flocks/dominant birds fighting for resources?

What makes humans special is the ability to self reflect, probably. I don't blame my chickens or my cat or a fox or a hawk when they kill, because they don't know better. We do; that ability gives us the responsibility to take care of each other, other animals, and the environment, since we are the only ones able. But we mostly don't do that? My point is that we are animals too. Incidentally, chicken brains are often used to simulate human brains in experiments, because they are so similar.

AMEN!
This post is so insightful and deeply perceptive,
I don`t even know how to properly respond in detail.
But thank you, I am glad you are here!

The idea of animals being just soulless "dead meat" comes often from a [faulty in my view] interpretation of Genesis 1:27+28

Just an incident relating to death:
You are right, animals are aware of it.
We experienced two hen deaths over the last few years.
I never simply "disappear" a body for burial, but put it down in a towel before the other chickens.
As you said, they might grieve differently but they are aware, they know an individual has crossed over. They stand quietly and solemnly around the body, and I recognize they know there is no more bird "in there", she has left it and is gone....
leaving only the empty shell behind.

 

[featherhead007]

Very interesting, and inspirational posts on this forum! I for one, believe that chickens are very intelligent, and can remember people, places, and things. I left my whole flock, "which I raised from egg", in California on a farm, for 11 months While I Traveled. When I returned, they wouldn't leave my side, jumping on my lap as before, doing tricks I had taught them to do. And little things, only my chickens knew to do with me. The people that I left them with were shocked, and amazed. And yes they feel emotions of many types.

 

[Dottie Ferrell]

What do you think - do your chickens remember you?

Several months ago, I traded a few extra pullets and a cockerel with a neighbor, who lost a lot of birds to a bobcat.

This morning I stopped by, and as soon as I got out of my truck, the cockerel came running. Perhaps 100 yards. I thought for sure he was just trying to guard his flock, but the neighbor said he's never done that before.

What do you think - did he remember the sound of my truck?

I certainly do think our foul have the ability to bond (imprint) and remember the people they loved. My story is a little different about my husband getting some 2 day old turkey chic's that he raised here in the city and took to his ranch in Montana a few months later to be free and wild on his vast property. It still had dangers like the weather and many dangerous critters but we have lived in Montana areas where there were a lot of free wild turkeys. All the turkeys grew and 4 of the 5, flew as a pack to neighboring farms, but this one white, don't know the specific breed but she has a bump on her nose so that might give a clue, waited at the camp site for 7 more months until my husband went to hunt and cohort with all his friends for a month. That turkey waited by herself for months and flew to him like she had found heaven. She stuck to him like glue and would not leave his sight. He ended up bringing her home to Port Angeles and lives on a double lot with our pet chickens but has adjusted well to her new friends. She still goes ape when she sees her Daddy----and often sits on his lap watching tv for hours. So, yes, I am sure they have more of a memory than we give them credit for.

 

[sciencegrrrrl]

He may have remembered you as the guy with the food! Either way, they do recognize and remember us. We lost our home several years back in a flood and had to move. When we were gathering our flock, our rooster got scared and took off. My husband went back later (a week and a half) and he was still hanging around. He caught him and drove him 1,100 miles to our new home. Before I even opened the back if the truck, I called his name (Hank, or Hanky Panky when he was up to no good!). He started talking to me immediately and did a little dance when I let him out of his crate!

I used to think they ran to me because I was the guy with the food.
Now - I'm thinking that he must have remembered me.

 

[NaperLix]

I have a light Sussex 10 month pullet,who had another Sussex as her mentor when she was young.It was just those two,in they're own coop.the younger sat next to her always.Frequently rubbing beaks.They played,running chasing each other,playing in the sand.The older one showing her how to do the sand box dance.Giving her the enemy noise for any overhead crows.
When the older one died suddenly,in minutes,one morning,she was very upset,as was I.She had laid eggs,played,ate,no sign of trouble.i wrapped and boxed her, gave her a proper burial.I brought the other to say good bye,just for a moment.
The remaining Sussex looked for days,under everything,wanted in any door,just to check.
I got her a new baby Sussex friend.The remaining one was still young ,3 months.the new one was 6 weeks.with a temporary divider,they became friends,and now live together.
To this day,when I call her passed away friends name,aloud,she starts looking around,and gets excited.Its cruel to do,so I only check,now and again.I get a tear as well,because I know how she feels.
She never got as close to the new chick.
They miss gone chicken friends,no doubt,and I'm sure they miss people too.

 

[8CityChicks]

I'm pretty sure they remember short-term. Long-term I don't know when it comes to people. When its danger, or past unpleasant experiences they do remember. My birds know my voice , my truck and when I'm displeased with something they did. On cold days I wrap their house in plastic and do all of the feed & water prep before I take the plastic down to let them out out. Even with the noise I make, they remain quiet until they hear my voice then all of them talk at once. I agree they are smarter than given credit for, we are often the ones lacking understanding of them.