Docking Tails (dogs- want your oppinon).

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There is a very good, supportive Yahoo group called Hunting Poodles, with TONS of people who would be really good resources for specific training tips.

Does the dog show a drive to retrieve? That would be #1, IMO. Work with fun games to heighten that drive, in short sessions so they don't get bored, and always end on a high note, with a good retrieve. One thing at a time. Building blocks. My husband has no intention of doing hunt tests, so the way we're training Remi (short for Remington) is really sort of seat-of-the-pants. We're no experts, but we know what we want to accomplish. We'll probably make a lot of mistakes--we usually do, with any kind of training--but they're really great, forgiving dogs.

Does your dog like to swim? Remi will plunge into anything in order to fetch, and that's definitely a bonus. That's another reason that anything you can do to increase that fetching drive is good.

Poodles are really attuned to their owners, so they'll very much follow your lead. If you're watching the sky, they will too. If you're sitting quietly, they will too. The way I see the difference between, say, Labs and poodles is that Labs are really great, very trainable, obedient dogs, who will often work for the sake of working--they love the job. Poodles work for YOU--to please you, above all. Where a Lab will unquestioningly do what it's told, poodles have a tendency to overthink things, and problem-solve on their own, which is not always great in training situations. You have to be willing to work with them as partners, and understand your dog.

There are professional trainers on here who could give you very good advice--we're not pros by any stretch. We just love our dogs (and are allergic to anything that sheds). The breeders we got Remi from have bred field and show Labs for years, and only recently added poodles. They make their living as professional hunting dog trainers, and they tell us that they DO use different techniques training the poodles than they do with the Labs. I know that you can't be as "hard" with a poodle as you can with a Lab. Some people say that the force-fetch training doesn't work well with poodles, but I certainly know plenty of upper-level obedience trainers who use the toe-pinch method to fetch train, so I guess it just varies from dog to dog.

I say give it a shot--what have you got to lose? If you start now, the dog can be ready in time for next year's duck season (or maybe even the tail-end of this one). Don't rush it. Build a solid foundation, and go from there.

PM me with your location, and I'll see if I can find hunting poodle folks in your area and hook you up. Also, if you send me a pedigree, I might be able to find something in it that indicates a working background.

Both of Remi's parents are working hunters, and her paternal grandsire has his MH and her granddam has her SH. She is linebred on "Pie," (HRCH Can CH Bibelot's Silver Power Play UD MH WCX) the first ever poodle to earn the AKC Master Hunter title, as soon as poodles were approved to compete for the title. The second poodle to earn the MH was Remi's grandsire. So the only thing that could keep her from fulfilling her promise...is US, if we screw it up! :eek:
 
Against docking tails unless there is a compelling reason which I can't think of at the moment. I wouldn't want mine cut off if I had one. Also not in favor of circumcision either but no one asked. Not sure why I think there's a similarity.
Maybe it's just a preference for all things natural = hair, teeth, and all the rest of what came with the original model.
There are of course some corrective pieces that might help functioning without going too far - also against plastic surgery unless again, there's a compelling reason and aesthetics ain't one of them. Actually those dogs with their tails, regardless of breeds look better to me than those where they've been chopped. I know there are show standards but jeez, enuf is enuf already.
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Very well said. Cocker spaniels, from the OP, are a case in point. Those who DO hunt with Cockers, do fine and enjoy their dogs. I just don't understand how anyone who is any kind of a fan of dogs and dog activities could universally bash an entire breed that they know nothing about, or why they'd want to. Weird, huh?

Im confused who's bashing what?

^^ Edited..nevermind i read the "bash" i agree, dogs can do whatever they have a drive and are trained to do...i think even a pomeranian could be traind (if it has the energy and the want) to do something only a big dog is expected to do...however ona small managable scale
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My cockers are being started on dual purpose retreive...
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Some pictures of them retrieving a rabbit.

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*Sam, below was having a hard time heavy bunnie*

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I also have a vid, but dont want to offend anyone with my male retrieving bunnie. So pictures seem less threatening.
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Again to the below question, who's bashing what? I hope you're not saying im bashing a breed because I perfer them to keep tails? I hope not....because silly if so.
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ALso by me posting the breeds transition through the decades, again was not me bashing teh breed...the show type of today is GORGEOUS, and more power to teh breeders who show them (i am friends with many who do), I just personally want MINE to be bred and used for what they were meant to be bred and used for.

However, I want them to keep their tails, just like someone mentioned Irish Settesr, they have a VERY similar tail to a cockers full tail. I'm pretty determined to proove that tails aren't as big of a deal as people think. Iknow therse some breeds that are phsycailly born without tails, and those are really the only breeds I think should be left tailless, however it'snot up to me and everyone has their own likes and dislikes and I am not one to stop people fromdoing what they are passionate about.
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If i was passionate about docking I wouldnt want a tailed person telling me waht to do either.
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I also will not take off dewclaws unless they pose a problem. I grew up with dogs I 'hunted" with, just your runof the mill mutts, tails and dewclaws, running through brush 4 ft tall, no problems..no blood no nothing.

Just as others have mentioned...breaking toes, I break my toes constantly esp my pinky toes... always have...i have abnormally big feet for my height lol. we..they're not so abnormal that i could be in records for weird feet, but they are pretty big Im 5'4" and wear size 10. Anyhow atleast that's my excuse for why im always banging into things. That and my nose...i wouldnt want someone hacking off my pinky just because of it...well unless i severely damage it and it needs amputated.....and such is the case with how if eel about my PERSONAL dogs tails.
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*edited because i found out whos bashing a breed...not me phew*! LOL!
 
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They're really good dogs. But seriously, they are problem-solvers. That can be good, and it can also be not-so-good.
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They're easy to train, but they can also figure out how to open doors, refrigerators, and trash-cans. :eek:

And I never, ever downplay the enormous commitment to grooming that is required with a poodle, especially a standard. The coat on this breed is completely unnatural, in that it does not shed (not in the traditional sense of double-coated breeds), but grows and grows and grows if it's not cut. Seriously health problems can occur if the hair is not cut regularly. I am no groomer, so I shave mine nekkid.
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really! kewl! okay well here ya go!
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this vid is his first time EVER with a rabbit, i thought he did amazingly well. He was pretty pooped by this vid beacuse i had already had him get and retrieve that rabbit over 20times before i decided to film it and callit a day. Today i had him in the woods retrieving this rabbit he did AWESOME!!! I'll film that another day ifi feel like it because lol you wont be able to see him in there...this out in the opened is easy to see though:



 
I have three rescued dogs. One is a full blood with a docked tail and the other 2 are rott mixes with full tails. I love the tails. watching them move I can tell my full blood has to use his back for balance that the tail would have done. He sways it back and forth while walking. Where as the other dogs backs stay straight.

It also makes a good handle when needed:p

I met someone who adopted a full blood rott with a tail and then had it amputated cause they wanted it to look right.

I'm against cosmetic surgery without consent from the owner of the body.
 
The bashing was poodle bashing and yapping dog bashing and it's been corrected.

I know people with Papillons as service dogs.

The only problem with not docking/cropping purebred puppies that are traditionally purebred is that in a rehoming situation there is a significant chance that they would be overlooked in favor of dogs that are docked/cropped.

Breeders don't like to think, especially pet breeders, about their precious puppies ending up in rehoming situations. In truth and in general, 1 in five puppies bred by pet breeders will stay in it's original home. Show and working breeders have better odds in general, partly from being super picky about placement and by having contracts.

One in five in a permanent home, means most dogs in a pet bred litter will be rehomed at some point. If the dog is purebred but does not meet the public's perception of what it should look like it has less chance of being adopted. If it lucks it's way into a sanctuary or rescue group it may survive that. If it's in a shelter, the rescues are full and no sanctuary available, it stands a higher chance of dying.

If so many pet bred dogs weren't bred every year, the odds would be better, but none of us can stop that. There aren't enough homes, even well intentioned adopters often want a purebred look.

The truth is even well bred show and working dogs end up in shelters and rescues, sometimes pet bred litters average much higher in successes. I'm talking averages, normal. And the truth is most of the public pass on, pass over and dump dogs with little thought to their responsibility for having taken in the puppy and rarely is a pet breeder ever aware of the outcome.

If you don't dock, I'd suggest you microchip to yourself and keep them registered, that way if they are dumped you will be contacted. We started doing that with all our placed rescues. It saved a couple of dogs.

I'd also suggest a refundable deposit for spay/neuter proof and a short contract. If you hold 50 or 75 dollars against proof of alteration you go a huge step toward ensuring the successful placement of pups. Someone who cannot or will not leave that amount with you should not be getting your precious pups.

We actually went to altering even small pups before placement because sometimes deposits are no guarantee. A dog has a vastly screaming huge better chance of staying in the same home if it's been altered. There are fewer secondary sex characteristic problems - marking, running stray and the like.

The majority of dogs stray are intact dogs at wander. The majority of turn ins are intact dogs that are advanced juvenilles or young adults developing secondary characteristic behaviors. Or young juvenilles and adult females and their litters, or as pregnant unwanted.

Consider their futures, microchip and get a deposit and good luck deciding on dock or not.
 

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