DOG FIGHT on our property, HELP!!! JRT R.I.P. 8/25/10 Post #78

[chicksbestfriend]

Thank you everyone for all the feedback, definitely need more food for thought to get through this issue correctly. So much good information. Working with a large pack as we have is very difficult, but not impossible.....................we have worked deligently trying to give the best to each dog according to their breeds and needs and are actually in the process of making two more kennels so that each dog has its own, unfortunately, I had left the door open, even for that split second for this tragic event to happen. We do work with the dogs individual on discipline and have had complete control over the dogs,they have always listened and respected the commands. We also work with them daily together as a pack interacting and socializing with one another and other dogs. Like someone had suggested, absolutely right, our emotions should be removed from the situation completely, and work together at finding the solution, it was at the heat of the moment when it all occurred, we were desparately reaching out to "blame" someone, something, for the unfortunate event. Like was mentioned, we are not looking into blaming, just finding the right solution, whether it be, do we have the time and skills and knowledge to go forth with this large pack, or do we need to thin the pack down. Now that things have calmed down, we are working on the solution, taking to heart and discussing all our options, with all the suggestions mentioned by everyone who responded to my post. Food aggression is something we need to definitely be in control of, that appears to be the culprit to this event. Dog #2 has always had that behavior, and we have been able to keep her in check......................the JRT also has that same behavior, and the two never, ever eat near each other, however, out of ignorance and belief, I didnt think that when I let the dogs out that I would have to check the JRT bowl as she is always the first one done within minutes, and this event unfolded several hours after the feeding. Dog #1 is toy aggressive in the presence of other dogs, and we have deligently worked with him on that behavior, since puppy time, we do not allow him to have toys when other dogs are present, but we allow him to enjoy and play with his toys on a 1 to 1 situation with us and it appears that satisfys his need to play with his toys. I can walk into a room with his toy with a room full of dogs, and he will sit and not seek it out once it is put away until next "play day". Each dog in our pack has always kept in check with the pack leaders (my husband and I) inside the house, a controlled environment, and they all know their places and accectable behavior, its outside the house is where we need to continue doing more work. Please keep the post coming, the pros and cons of dog ownership is truly being taken to heart as we want nothing more than what is best for the dogs overall well being.

 

[babyblue]

I 100% agree with wellsummer and BB. separating dogs(long term attempted), re homing or putting animals down are all bad options that either delay, move the problem to someone else or are poor animal ownership. a shock collar is bad training??? really really? I have seen it used with excellent affect on dogs and even horses. heck one shock to a super aggressive horse is sometimes all thats ever needed. shock collars are instant effective and removes the risk of the human being injured in a dog fight. 7 dogs is not too many. 7 untrained dogs is too many, well actually 1 untrained dog is too many.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I think that dogs are very intelligent. It isn't the same sort of thoughts people would have in the same situation, but it is intelligence. Dog intelligence.

We have had some very messed up dogs given to us, pups we raised have had different personalities, but no serious problems, because we worked with them as pups so much. It is a drill every single day from the time they come to the house.

One pup we raised, we taught formal food refusal. We were at an open air fruit market once and heard a lady saying 'oh my God, a dog, I hope he doesn't bite my baby' (She had a baby in a stroller). We could hear her going up and down every aisle at the market saying to everyone, 'Oh my God a dog'.

Suddenly, the lady comes around a corner, runs right into the dog before she realizes the dog is right there, unintentionally slamming into the dog with the front of the carriage, and there is Baby, holding out a cookie with her fat little hand, right into the dog's face and mouth!

The lady starts screaming. She runs around to the front of the carriage with her arms flailing, ready to save her child, just as the dog whips its head around away from the cookie and the baby.

She is sobbing and screaming. But my ole dog, she did her food refusal like a champ. I did not even have time to give a command. She just knew!

The lady is screaming and having hysterics, BUT! Three or four young people come up and say loudly, 'WHAT A GOOD DOG! We SAW it all! We saw what she did! GOOD DOG!' And they start patting the dog on the head. And of course my dog is wagging her tail, smiling and saying, 'thanks, thanks everyone, but it was nothing!'

And BABY....you have to work on it a couple more years to get a baby to not like dogs!.... Baby reaches out his arms grins from ear to ear and yells 'DAW!'

This of course is the same dog that disappeared at the auction, and wound up sitting next to an Amish pie selling lady, and the Amish lady just SHOVELING blueberry pie down her, one huge wedge after the other.

SO MAYBE NOT 100% FOOD REFUSAL TRAINED. But when it counted, she sure was!!!!!! My point, buried somewhere in there, is that a well trained, reliable dog is an incredible pleasure to live with, travel with, visit others with, and everything else. You get love, adventures, fun, triumphs and all sorts of great memories, but most of all you get freedom. Freedom from worry, and freedom to take that dog anywhere with you and do anything you want with it.

It is worth it to work on the training. It is worth every moment.

 

[Brindlebtch]

We used to do public relations demos at local events. My dog was on a down stay. Really a bright, fun, exceedingly well trained dog. I was talking to somebody about training, and saw an unattended toddler run by. I turned to my dog just as the toddler tripped over her and landed smack across her body. You could hear my dog's breath get knocked out the impact was so hard. She laid there and looked at the toddler (I have to admit she was annoyed, like, where did THAT come from) laying across her. This is, of course, when Mom shows up. Mom just about had little green kittens right there. My dog just kept her stay until the toddler was removed, at which point I released her and she stood up and shook and wagged her tail. No big deal.

This was the scariest looking dog I ever had - completely black faced and kind of gargoyly looking if you didn't know her. She had a sense of humor that was almost human and could make fun of people. A real gem.

I have seen an expert Tritronics trainer use an electric collar to train healing. The dog I had with me, at the time, was a big male AmStaff, who he used as a demo dog. Used it just like collar corrections and was essentially painless. Shock collars are just another training tool to use, but are frequently used by people who don't know how to use them correctly. They have a much wider application than simple aversion training. They are only useful for aversion or emergency situation training if you have the remote in your hand 24/7, just like a crop, or a leash. It is useful to train a verbal with ecollar commands, because unless the dog is going to live the rest of its life in the collar and you live the rest of your life with the remote in your hand, you are going to need a verbal to link the behavior with the correction. I have seen 2 dogs that lived in e-collars develop huge neck sores from the collar electrodes.

I have had great success with my dogs and their training and have only used an e-collar on one dog, and that was to train a recall. It is an extremely humane tool, if used correctly. I take great pleasure in my dog's company and also having a well trained, happy dog.

I don't advocate inhumane training and am not saying anybody else on this board does, either.

There are a lot of ways to train dogs, and just because someone's method is different from yours doesn't necessarily mean it is ineffective or inhumane, or that the trainer is lazy or doesn't understand dog training. It is just a different way - and a lot of different ways end up with essentially the same result.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I see your points, all good ones. Really nice story about the dog.

 

[lurky]

Vicki, I am wondering how your JRT is doing now?

 

[True Grit]

The JRT is essentiallly defenseless. Protect him at all times, by separation if necessary. I don't have wide experience of pits but I have a permanent scar from the sweetest, human-loving pit mix ever, who was having a stand-off with my collie. The pit mix bit two people hard that time but the collie didn't bite anybody, under the very same circumstances. If you have what Cesar Milan calls a power breed you need to be hyper-aware.

 

[Sir Birdaholic]

Sorry this happened. Maybe if you get Dog #2 to go to Dog #3..... Wait Dog#4 ......no,.....Dog #1 should be.....I mean Dog #5...

I have 7 so I know how it is, but that description was as hard to follow as Mario Andretti thru downtown Atlanta.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Even Mario Andretti couldn't get through downtown Atlanta.

The book says something like, 'there is only one traffic jam in Atlanta, it goes from 3am to 12 midnight every day of the week, and involves every street'.

We were down there to visit family friends, and I asked them how long it would take to get to their address, which involved going from one highway entrance to the next exit. A distance of one and a half miles.

'Allow one and a half hours, unless it rains, then allow longer'.

 

[Sir Birdaholic]

I lived there in 1976 & '77. I couldn't believe the driving 80 mph & 5 feet between cars. WHEW!