Dog turned predator - how do I convince my husband to get rid of it?

[Flock Leader]

SSS, while he is at work. Honey, I came home from the store and the dog was gone.

I'm honestly tempted to do that, but I feel it would be dishonest. I do wish we could somehow settle this between us.

While you said fencing was not possible because of the rocky soil, have you considered electric net fencing?

I've never heard of it; will look into it, but in our next home it might be possible to have a regular fence (we're moving in about a month, so obviously we won't invest in anything here right now).

I realize free ranging always exposes chickens to predators, but a) this dog had caused more damage than all other predators in our area (foxes, cats, feral dogs, snakes, owls) put together, and b) what's so frustrating is that this particular danger is totally preventable, even if they free range. There are many dogs. We used to have a dog that was good with chickens. Why can't we have another dog like that, instead of this monster?

Are the chickens just getting too close to the dog while he's on the run or was he loose?

Both, but most were killed when they got too close to the dog while she's on the run. There are always bits of dog food around, even if I remove the bowl, and chickens love them. At first she'd just grab them as a game and most escaped unscathed, but now I see how she deliberately waits to pounce on them.

My question for you, OP, is - are you willing to give up your beloved chickens so your husband can have his dog, as you are expecting him to give up his beloved dog for your chickens?

If he won't give up his dog, and if we find no long-term solution, I am willing to give up my beloved chickens so they can stay alive and have a better, safer home someplace else. It would break my heart, as the chickens are one of my favorite things in the world, but I would do it.

By the way, my daughters feel the same way. They love the chickens and won't go near the dog with a ten-foot pole. It was so traumatic for them to see the dismembered chickens. The dog doesn't bite humans (if she ever bit a child I would personally make sure she is killed), but she jumps on my daughters and knocks them off their feet and they HATE being around this dog, as she's so unmanageable. So it's the majority of us who want to get rid of this dog. We miss our Swiss Shepherd so much. I'm open to have any dog of a calm and gentle breed.

I'd forget about trying to talk hubby into getting rid of the dog and get an electric training collar for the dog instead.

My husband did that and promised he would work with the dog with the training collar, but eventually it came to nothing. It's like he wants to keep the dog but won't lift a finger to make her more manageable. And I don't see why I should work with her when I can't stand her and it would be so much easier to get another dog.

from your dog's perspective - they've stolen his person (you), his yard (territory), AND his food (eating from his dish). That's a lot for a dog to handle. And that's a whole different reason for killing chickens than chasing 'squeaky toys' for fun. It's also REALLY important that you understand jealousy-based violence because you're pregnant. I'm not saying your dog would go so far as to harm your baby, but if it was ME - no way I'd keep that dog once the baby arrived.

Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I've been telling the same thing to my husband for ages - re-homing would be better for the dog, too. And I already have small children who won't come anywhere near this dog.

I think the OP needs a stuffed dog - sorry no insult meant but it is apparent she is not a dog person.

No, no, the OP doesn't need a stuffed dog or any dog at all... however, the OP got along pretty well with other dogs (just not this one). So I'm open to having other dogs (just not this one). But you're right that I'm more of a cat, chicken and goat person.

Thank you all for your replies and thoughtfulness. I'll try to keep in control for now... and will have another long serious conversation with my husband about this dog...

 

[Flock Leader]

PS: I think I wasn't very precise in my choice of words and somehow made it appear as though the chickens are only my project, while in fact getting chickens was my husband's initiative to begin with. He was the one who got our first surprise chicks, the one who built our incubator and chicken coop, and the one responsible for vaccinations. I do most of the routine work, such as running the incubator, taking care of the young chicks, feeding and watering the flock, collecting eggs, making sure they are settled for the night, etc. Either way, it's not like only I care for the chickens and he doesn't. That's why I'm so frustrated he won't do anything to stop our birds being killed by the dog. He keeps making excuses such as "she's just playing" or "her energy is what makes her such a good guard dog".

You should hear how our daughters react when we're all going for a family walk and my husband suggests we bring the dog as well... "No, Daddy, please! Not the dog! We don't want to go with the dog!" ... but now I'm ranting.

Oh and one more thought: I see this approaching house move as THE one big opportunity to change things. If the dog comes with us to the new house, I guess I can forget about getting rid of her, ever. So the decision must come now or never.

I do have to be honest and admit that, even if at our new place my husband manages to install a good fence and ensure the dog never gets near the chickens again, I'm still going to hate this dog for the rest of her life. I realize this sounds irrational, but as 6of6chicks said, "the ship has long sailed" between me and the dog. I am physically repulsed by being next to her (something I've never experienced with any other animal), and her barking makes me want to strangle her. I wonder if she feels the same way about me...

 

[6of6chicks]

I do have to be honest and admit that, even if at our new place my husband manages to install a good fence and ensure the dog never gets near the chickens again, I'm still going to hate this dog for the rest of her life. I realize this sounds irrational, but as 6of6chicks said, "the ship has long sailed" between me and the dog. I am physically repulsed by being next to her (something I've never experienced with any other animal), and her barking makes me want to strangle her. I wonder if she feels the same way about me...

No, your dog does NOT feel the same about you. It would be much simpler if she did. Unfortunately, it's far more likely that your dog is desperate to earn your approval. Based on what you've posted so far, I'd have to say that your dog is:

LONELY - she's chained up all day and has minimal contact with anyone.
BORED - again, chained up all day. Does she have anything to do besides bark, dig, chase chickens, or anything else you don't like?
ANXIOUS - she knows you hate her but most likely doesn't understand why.
STRESSED - she lives in an abusive home (mentally and physically)
AFRAID - she's screamed at and has rocks thrown at her
JEALOUS - kids and chickens outrank her. They get everything, and the only attention she gets is negative (and maybe love from your husband, but it doesn't sound like it's very often).

In my experience dogs feel a LOT of emotions, but hatred isn't one of them. One of the saddest things in the world is seeing a beaten, broken, abused dog STILL trying desperately to get its owner to love it. Over and over again. I think what you're not realizing is that YOU and your kids are part of her pack. She's going to continue to do everything she can to interact with you because your family is her whole world. Your dog does not understand why you hate her, and it is heartbreaking that you don't seem to realize that. You're keeping score, but she isn't.

Think of it this way: let's say your neighbor has a two year old. You often see the two year old left alone outside in the yard, with no toys, all by herself. When you DO see her mom interact with her, the mom either ignores her (no matter how loudly she's crying) or she yells at her. You never see her give the two year old hugs and kisses, never see her praise or play with the child. The little girl has older sisters, who the mom loves and dotes on, but the sisters either ignore the child or tease her. One time you even saw the mom spanking the toddler REALLY hard and you couldn't imagine what the little girl could have done to possibly deserve that. Now - would you call that a happy home, or would you call child protective services to have the little girl taken away?

Please re-home the dog.

 

[Flock Leader]

No, your dog does NOT feel the same about you. It would be much simpler if she did. Unfortunately, it's far more likely that your dog is desperate to earn your approval. Based on what you've posted so far, I'd have to say that your dog is:

LONELY - she's chained up all day and has minimal contact with anyone.
BORED - again, chained up all day. Does she have anything to do besides bark, dig, chase chickens, or anything else you don't like?
ANXIOUS - she knows you hate her but most likely doesn't understand why.
STRESSED - she lives in an abusive home (mentally and physically)
AFRAID - she's screamed at and has rocks thrown at her
JEALOUS - kids and chickens outrank her. They get everything, and the only attention she gets is negative (and maybe love from your husband, but it doesn't sound like it's very often).

In my experience dogs feel a LOT of emotions, but hatred isn't one of them. One of the saddest things in the world is seeing a beaten, broken, abused dog STILL trying desperately to get its owner to love it. Over and over again. I think what you're not realizing is that YOU and your kids are part of her pack. She's going to continue to do everything she can to interact with you because your family is her whole world. Your dog does not understand why you hate her, and it is heartbreaking that you don't seem to realize that. You're keeping score, but she isn't.

Think of it this way: let's say your neighbor has a two year old. You often see the two year old left alone outside in the yard, with no toys, all by herself. When you DO see her mom interact with her, the mom either ignores her (no matter how loudly she's crying) or she yells at her. You never see her give the two year old hugs and kisses, never see her praise or play with the child. The little girl has older sisters, who the mom loves and dotes on, but the sisters either ignore the child or tease her. One time you even saw the mom spanking the toddler REALLY hard and you couldn't imagine what the little girl could have done to possibly deserve that. Now - would you call that a happy home, or would you call child protective services to have the little girl taken away?

Please re-home the dog.

I definitely believe this dog could be better behaved if she lived with people who gave her more attention, exercise, and tasks that would enable her to prove herself in a positive way. Unfortunately, this isn't us. I couldn't agree more that she needs another home. I've been saying to my husband what you said here - "please re-home the dog" - over and over again. As for "calling child protective services", in moments of despair I daydream about calling one of those animal loving organizations and ask them to "kidnap" the dog while my husband is away. I haven't done it because I don't really want to do anything behind his back.

Also, my husband is very busy. He either works long hours or is absorbed in projects (right now, for instance, we are building a cabin for vacation house/renting). He wants to keep animals, but he can't do that without "outsourcing" a large part of their everyday care to me. I'm the one to care for our chickens on an everyday basis. When we had goats, I was the one to feed and milk them. It can work if I like the animals and enjoy spending time with them... but not otherwise, not in the long run. With the dog, he counts on me to feed and water her, and until not long ago also to take her on part of the walks (which I refuse to do now because I'm pregnant and she easily throws me off balance). Saying "I know you hate this dog but I'll take on a 100% of her care and you'll never need to get near her" is entirely different than "I know you hate this dog but we'll keep her AND the one to feed her and walk her will be YOU."

 

[Summertime7921]

How old is this dog? Is she still in her jerky puppy phase? Is she chained the majority of the time? I realize you don't want to work with her, and just want rid of her, but two huge problems might be her age, and frustration from being chained. If she knocks your kids down, then she needs the most basic training- my dogs know from day 1 that you NEVER jump up on a human or hurt moms chickens.
Unfortunately, your husband chose a dog with high prey drive and you may be able to control it, but it will never go away. There are breeds that would be better suited to your temperament and situation, but I'm not going to list them here because honestly you probably shouldn't have a dog. I hope your husband can let the dog go, bc it sounds like even if you didn't have chickens, you and the children still wouldn't want to interact with her.

 

[jlynnp]

All I am asking is please do this dog a big favor and let it go to a home that understands the breeds and knows how to work with them. The combination is often done to create a well rounded Police K9 with the size of a GSD and the agility, health and high drives of a Malinois. If you are any where close to Tenn please let me know and I will try to figure out how to get this dog to me.

 

[Flock Leader]

How old is this dog? Is she still in her jerky puppy phase? Is she chained the majority of the time?

The dog is about 2 years old. For a Malinois, that's still like a puppy. And unfortunately she is chained to her run line most of the time.

All I am asking is please do this dog a big favor and let it go to a home that understands the breeds and knows how to work with them. The combination is often done to create a well rounded Police K9 with the size of a GSD and the agility, health and high drives of a Malinois. If you are any where close to Tenn please let me know and I will try to figure out how to get this dog to me.

I do have to say I warned my husband from the beginning. He chose the puppy with the help of his friend, a professional dog trainer, who told him "this is the greatest dog ever but you will need to put a LOT of work into training." I told him: a) We don't need the greatest dog ever. For our purpose, any friendly but territorial dog will do as a guard dog. We could just get a mutt and be perfectly happy. And b) You don't have time to put in a lot of work. I did realize from the beginning this would be a problem.

I'm not anywhere near your area, but I think I might have a solution... perhaps. There's a neighbor who's a war vet, worked with dogs in the army, loves dogs, loves THIS dog, used to volunteer to take her for walks (unfortunately this stopped after a sad incident during which he let the dog loose in the yard and she wounded a chicken), and once he talked to me about how unhappy the dog obviously is with us. He told me he'd offer to take her and I told this to my husband, but back then it fell on deaf ears. Now, though, that we are moving and the dog could possibly go to someone who already knows her... it could be a great solution. If the neighbor is still willing.

 

[Flock Leader]

Quote: I won't pretend I WANT to have a dog, but if my husband really wants one we could choose one that would be better suited to the whole family. I think that's a reasonable compromise. We had other dogs in the past, after all, and there were never such problems. The dog before this one was a good guard dog with practically NO prey drive, and she was also very calm and gentle around our children. I felt safe she wouldn't knock a toddler down to the ground, for instance.

Another important thing for us would be to get an adult dog, not a puppy. There's no way I'm ever going through the puppy stage again, ever. I could fill several suitcases with all the clothes our dog ruined before she turned one.

And it saddens me to say so, but I was probably set against this puppy from the beginning. I just wasn't over the death of our previous dog. She died very tragically and unexpectedly - my husband took her for a walk one day, and she swallowed something that turned out to be poison that killed her within an hour. Somebody probably placed it to get rid of feral dogs or foxes. There was nothing we could do - before we realized something was wrong, she was dying. I cried my eyes out and told my husband I never want another dog again, it was so painful. I would probably have felt differently after a while, but instead he hurried to bring home a new puppy, probably thinking I would love her because she was so cute and little. It never happened.

 

[6of6chicks]

I won't pretend I WANT to have a dog, but if my husband really wants one we could choose one that would be better suited to the whole family. I think that's a reasonable compromise. We had other dogs in the past, after all, and there were never such problems. The dog before this one was a good guard dog with practically NO prey drive, and she was also very calm and gentle around our children. I felt safe she wouldn't knock a toddler down to the ground, for instance.

Another important thing for us would be to get an adult dog, not a puppy. There's no way I'm ever going through the puppy stage again, ever. I could fill several suitcases with all the clothes our dog ruined before she turned one.

Dogs are highly social animals. It isn't enough to leave the training and socialization to your husband. Quite frankly, if you aren't able or willing to participate in the care of the dog, then you shouldn't have one. And by care I don't just mean feeding. I mean training, playing, socializing, and establishing a bond with the dog. A dog will NEVER understand that it "belongs" to your husband alone, and expecting it to "get" that is unfair and cruel to the dog.

You've stated up front that you don't want a dog. You're willing to have one IF it is well-mannered, calm, friendly, sweet-natured, will protect your family, and can be implicitly trusted. I'm sorry to break it to you but they don't fall of the truck that way. It takes MONTHS, if not YEARS, of devoted training and socializing to get the dog of your dreams. Even if you rescue an adult dog from a shelter you are STILL going to have to intensively train the dog, not to mention integrate it into your family.

Please - before you get another dog (if you choose to get one) - enroll in puppy training classes. You AND your husband both need to learn how to train a dog BEFORE getting another one. I've had several puppies over the years and not ONE of them destroyed anything of value. A crate towel chewed around the edges? Sure. But outright destruction of MY stuff? Of course not, because I know how to properly supervise my dogs and provide appropriate outlets for all that puppy energy.

I'm sorry to be blunt. I sympathize with WHY you hate this dog and I don't judge you at all. I just think you don't have the skills and knowledge to handle a dog, which is why you're having such trouble with this one, but that's also a reason why there shouldn't be a "next" dog.

 

[Flock Leader]

You've stated up front that you don't want a dog. You're willing to have one IF it is well-mannered, calm, friendly, sweet-natured, will protect your family, and can be implicitly trusted. I'm sorry to break it to you but they don't fall of the truck that way.

Then I suppose we were just very lucky with our previous dog. She was given to us when she was 3 years old and she was such a darling. I am the first to confess I had misgivings about handling a large breed, but after seeing how great she was with everybody (me, the children, our birds, other dogs) I realized what a valuable asset such a dog can be. I didn't mind at all taking her for walks, playing with her, etc, especially since I could do it *with my kids*. I simply can't spare the time for kid-free dog walking/training.

Maybe I was also set up for a disappointment/shock precisely *because* my previous experience with a dog had been so surprisingly good (though I never dreamed I'd own one). I mean, first we had a dog with manners that can only be described as aristocratic, and we got her all trained. Then we got this puppy. Of course I wasn't prepared for it.

Again, IF we ever get another dog it probably won't be a puppy. This means we'd have to deal with previous training (or lack thereof), but putting up with a puppy just isn't for me.

PS: I don't want to make my husband unhappy, I really don't. I love how he approaches everything with childlike enthusiasm. When he came home with that little puppy in his coat pocket he wore the expression of someone offering a wonderful surprise. And I'll never forget the day when he arrived and proudly announced, "I bought us two goats" (I nearly fell off my chair... "You bought two WHAT?!"). But sometimes things just don't work out.