Dogs more important than Chickens?

[TOMTE]

And I'd much prefer not be routinely picked on by a specific few users when I post in threads for no reason other than semantics + being misunderstood in the first place. It's hard to let it go as I've been told to when y'all keep talking about it too... And then turn around and tell me that I should just be the one to walk away. Alright. Well take your own advice and let it go too. I'm interested in thoughtful discussion, not drama. So can we drop it now? I'm not trying to have the last word, I'm just tired of being picked on :/

 

[Seaslug]

I think my fundamental differences from most of the people posting here is:
1. I do believe that a dog (and a chicken and all living things) have inherent worth just for being alive. The only things that I unequivocally kill are parasites and flies and mosquitoes.
2. I do not assume that every single thing that occurs has human intent behind it (i.e. I believe that people can make honest mistakes and accidents happen.)
3. I am not convinced that killing is an effective means of dealing with most of these issues.

I also think that most people's minds are made up about this issue and they are not all that open to other's view points.

 

[Squawkers]

I think my fundamental differences from most of the people posting here is:
1. I do believe that a dog (and a chicken and all living things) have inherent worth just for being alive. The only things that I unequivocally kill are parasites and flies and mosquitoes.
2. I do not assume that every single thing that occurs has human intent behind it (i.e. I believe that people can make honest mistakes and accidents happen.)
3. I am not convinced that killing is an effective means of dealing with most of these issues.

I also think that most people's minds are made up about this issue and they are not all that open to other's view points.

You’re right about peoples minds being made up. Not to bring it all up again, but what what you said about honest mistakes and accidents is why I would contact the owners first. I don’t think it’s fair to just shoot any dog you see because it might have been just an accident and the owner never lets their dogs roam.

 

[saysfaa]

...
3. I am not convinced that killing is an effective means of dealing with most of these issues.

I'm not sure what you mean, like what "most of these issues" are. Could you explain more.

I also think that most people's minds are made up about this issue and they are not all that open to other's view points.

It doesn't take much openness to others' viewpoints to move at least as far as being more open to hearing them, I've found. Sometimes that leads of changes of viewpoint, sometimes it doesn't. Either way, it usually leads to more understanding which usually leads to more tolerance of differences.

 

[Seaslug]

Hi sysfaa --
I want to preface by stating that I am not insinuating that anyone on BackYard Chickens is/has threatened bodily harm to another human being.
I acknowledge that some relatively recent high profile cases of people shooting other people in the United States for merely stepping foot on personal property is disturbing to me. I am not equating animal life to human, but I do see similarities between the two, and it is likely a part of my position.
And whether it is killing a natural predator or a dog that you say is owned by one of any number of neglectful neighbors or has been dropped off because you live at the town drop off point -- what has been solved through that death?
There is a tax-payer funded national program to poison coyotes on range land -- but when studied, despite hundreds of thousands that have been poisoned and all the time and money spent, the population has never wavered. More are killed some years than others, but populations remain steady. It is not effective population control.
Like Al repeats about the rats, you have to control the surroundings to control the predators -- you can't shoot your way out of it.
If you do not talk to the owners and there is no consequence for the owner of the dog (just a lethal consequence for the dog itself), then there is no learning and no reason to think that the neighbor/whoever is not going to keep on behaving exactly as before (again, assuming this behavior was negligent/spiteful on their behalf, rather than just misinformed/ignorant/accidental/whoops (which is a decent percentage of human behavior.)
If people keep abandoning dogs in your area, it is time to really get involved with spay neuter programs so there aren't as many animals to be abandoned in the first place. Agreed, that is not an immediate answer, but it is a possible solution.
Killing another animal after the loss of one or more of one's chickens seems more like a reaction to me, and killing another animal just because it is on your property, before anything has happened, to me is an unnecessary over reaction.
That is what I meant when I said I am not convinced that killing is an effective means of dealing with most of these issues. Don't know that that helps.

 

[Altairsky]

So, basically you're saying that the life of a random dog attacking my pets inside my property is more important than the life of my own pets? That I shouldn't kill an aggressive dog inside my backyard and that I should let it kill my cats, my dogs, my chickens, because it's just a mistake? That it's alright if my pets die because of someone's woopsie? Just stand there, looking at it while it dismembers my cat, and eventually go searching for its owner, if it ever has one? Heck, lets let the stray dog maul my kids playing under my porch, too, at this point.

 

[TOMTE]

So, basically you're saying that the life of a random dog attacking my pets inside my property is more important than the life of my own pets? That I shouldn't kill an aggressive dog inside my backyard and that I should let it kill my cats, my dogs, my chickens, because it's just a mistake? That it's alright if my pets die because of someone's woopsie? Just stand there, looking at it while it dismembers my cat, and eventually go searching for its owner, if it ever has one? Heck, lets let the stray dog maul my kids playing under my porch, too, at this point.

That is not what's being said at all, that's just how you're deciding to take it. Seaslug makes a lot of good points but you blow past them all because you're stuck on this hypothetical rabid dog that just wants to kill everybody and everything situation.

Nobody is saying to just stand there while a dog is killing another animal/pet. Where has anybody said that in this thread?

 

[Rick589]

It’s been my experience that many dog owners ‘generally speaking and not to include EVERY dog owner, are inconsiderate of neighbors and others in general. They seem to have this mindset that because they have/love/like dogs that everyone else feels the same way and as such everyone else is ok with whatever they, the owners, are ok with with respect to the animal. You have people on here concerned about the neighbors hearing their roosters. Case in point, if your dog owning neighbor has a perpetually barking dog have they ever shown any concern that the barking may bother you? Chances are pretty good they have not. To me, they seem to think that they can impose their barking dogs on everyone, and violate leash laws at will BECAUSE dogs are somehow these revered animals that supersede the value and importance of other animals and certainly of other people. If the animal is not controlled, and a dog is an animal nothing more nothing less, and causes harm to others(animal or people) there should be some accountability. I’m guessing the dispatching of any other animal that caused death or injury to another(got that first taste of blood) would be acceptable as long as that thinking doesn’t extend to the glorious, all important dog.

 

[TOMTE]

It’s been my experience that many dog owners ‘generally speaking and not to include EVERY dog owner, are inconsiderate of neighbors and others in general. They seem to have this mindset that because they have/love/like dogs that everyone else feels the same way and as such everyone else is ok with whatever they, the owners, are ok with with respect to the animal. You have people on here concerned about the neighbors hearing their roosters. Case in point, if your dog owning neighbor has a perpetually barking dog have they ever shown any concern that the barking may bother you? Chances are pretty good they have not. To me, they seem to think that they can impose their barking dogs on everyone, and violate leash laws at will BECAUSE dogs are somehow these revered animals that supersede the value and importance of other animals and certainly of other people. If the animal is not controlled, and a dog is an animal nothing more nothing less, and causes harm to others(animal or people) there should be some accountability. I’m guessing the dispatching of any other animal that caused death or injury to another(got that first taste of blood) would be acceptable as long as that thinking doesn’t extend to the glorious, all important dog.

This is where we keep getting stuck, I think, on this thread.

We have dog lovers who would never harm a dog. Nothing wrong with that. We have people at the other end of the spectrum (not necessarily dog haters, but people who maybe don't care for them as much, or who see them as any other predator) who have no issue with killing a dog when necessary or, unfortunately, on sight without provocation. Like I've said, necessity is situational. Some people straight up can't risk losing their livelihood to a predator. Some can but would rather not because of the time, money, and work it takes.

It's a polarizing topic because dogs are, for good reason, man's best friend. They have literally evolved alongside humans for at least tens of thousands of years. We have bred them to do everything from work to just being our buddies. However, they are still predators at their core. Which is why care needs to be taken wrt training and containment. That is the owner's responsibility, not the responsibility of whoever owns the property that the dog wanders onto.

But! I have to wonder if some of this back-and-forth comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of dog behavior? Some people on this thread are... Very preoccupied with the idea of a rabid/aggressive dog busting down their fence to get to their pets/livestock/kids. So much so that I'm beginning to wonder how much these people actually know about dogs in the first place, beyond the fact that they're technically predators. I mean, a dog killing a chicken or cat or whatever else isn't a sign of aggression on its own. There are other signs to look for: body language is a big one but it's not easy to assess a dog's body language when you're in the middle of a chaotic situation. Would you call a wolf killing a prey animal aggressive? Unless you're severely misinformed, probably not.

I don't know if this is cohesive and coherent. I'm tired. Basically, yes, dogs are very important to some people. What's wrong with that, genuinely? Chickens are probably important to all of us here (otherwise, what's the point of this discussion?). Obviously there's nothing wrong with that either. A dog is not fundamentally more important than a chicken, and a chicken is not fundamentally more important than a dog. They both have worth as living creatures. What we do with that just depends on our situation.

 

[Squawkers]

Yeah, I think it’s a little ridiculous how everyone is exaggerating the aggression of loose dogs. I have had several loose dogs, and each one was an absolute sweetheart that I just penned up until the owners could be found. Once the owners came to get them I never saw any of them again. If I saw a dog more times and it was apparent that the owners were irresponsible, I would not tolerate the dog on my property. And I know location does play a role, I’m not completely out in the middle of nowhere, so maybe it would be different for those people. Now, I’m not nieve to the potential of aggressive dogs and I would deal with those differently. I would still, if possible, catch the dog and take it away from my property. But if it was actively killing anything of mine and I couldn’t scare it away, then it would be bye bye doggie without hesitation.