Dominant White or Recessive White

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by pips&peeps, Feb 14, 2009.

  1. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    Jan 18, 2008
    Newman Lake, WA
    Is there anyway other than crossing with a black to tell if my birds are recessive white or dominant white?

    recessive white cock over black hen = black offspring

    dominant white cock over black hen = white offspring

    This also works with genders reversed per the Kip Calculator.

    Thanks
     
  2. blackclownfish16

    blackclownfish16 Chillin' With My Peeps

    As far as I know crossing is the only way to tell for sure if a white bird is dom. or rec. Of course you can make some generalizations for example leghorns are almost always dominant white as are wyandottes and cornish. Phoenix and silkies are almost always recessive. Again though crossing is the only way to know for sure, a dominant white bird should yield all white birds no matter what color it is bred with. All the white ameraucanas I have had are dominant white, of course they are bantams also. Anyway hope that helps. [​IMG]
     
  3. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    I just got some new ones and they are "different" than my current birds. Their legs aren't as dark, someone mentioned that could indicate recessive white.

    If the new lines are recessive and my old lines are dominant, then I don't want to mix them. As colors could pop out down the road.

    PS My husband's dad lives in Wasilla..... is it a small town?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  4. blackclownfish16

    blackclownfish16 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Yeah Wasilla's a small town. We have about 8000 people in city limits but about 60,000 in the outlying areas (suburbs and whatnot). Also we are the fourth largest city in the state....of course this is Alaska...[​IMG]

    I heard somewhere that one of the whites (I want to say recessive but not 100%) was prone to leakiness ie black ticking, not sure if that would matter. Hopefully someone else can help with this.
     
  5. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    That doesn't sound all that small....

    I guess I am going to have to do a test breeding to see what I get.
     
  6. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Dominant white is leaky, and without modifiers does not create a completely white bird. Red pyle is a good example of where dominant white "leaks." Only if a dominant white bird has two copies of the same dominant white allele will all offspring be white (with or without leakiness). If their is only one copy, then only half the offspring will receive that copy.

    Recessive white X black does not yield black--it all depends on the genes the white is hiding. Likewise with dominant white. If carrying blue or splash, the offspring may/will inherit those dilutions. If carrying pattern genes, those may be inherited. If melanizers are missing, their lack will be inherited. Etc.

    Since white is an OFF switch to the colours and patterns genetically present, trying to determine the variety of the offspring is kind of like saying "if I mate my black (or whatever variety) to an anonymous bird, what colour will the offspring be?" You only know part of the equation, and without test breedings do not have sufficient information to provide anything but guesses.
     
  7. Blisschick

    Blisschick not rusty

    Feb 20, 2007
    Shepherd, Texas
    Recessive white X black does not yield black--it all depends on the genes the white is hiding.

    This isn't so. Recessive white is recessive to black. I found this out with my Jersey Giants. I had a black roo in with my white hens, and all offspring were black. (White JG's are recessive). When I crossed one of the resulting black roos back to the white hens and hybrid black hens, I got some recessive white offspring. Blacks can be carriers of recessive white and not show it.

    You can tell if you have a recessive white chick at hatch by it's down color. They will be what is called "smoky", a silvery color resembling a light blue or splash chick, but will feather out pure white.​
     
  8. Buster

    Buster Back to Work

    Ok, so is a white orp's coloring recessive or dominant? I crossed a black orp rooster on white orp hens and half the chicks were barred and the other half were black.
     
  9. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    Quote:This isn't so. Recessive white is recessive to black. I found this out with my Jersey Giants. I had a black roo in with my white hens, and all offspring were black. (White JG's are recessive). When I crossed one of the resulting black roos back to the white hens and hybrid black hens, I got some recessive white offspring. Blacks can be carriers of recessive white and not show it.

    You can tell if you have a recessive white chick at hatch by it's down color. They will be what is called "smoky", a silvery color resembling a light blue or splash chick, but will feather out pure white.

    Well, my old line is recessive then and I think my new line is too as I have gotten some feedback from buyers asking why the chicks had off colored down.

    I think the off colored down is a better white too, so recessive is the way to go as they don't yellow in the sun.

    Also, in the book, Genetics of the Fowl, it states orpingtons are recessive white.
     
  10. Blisschick

    Blisschick not rusty

    Feb 20, 2007
    Shepherd, Texas
    They do yellow some, but not as bad as dominant, hence the reason recessive is preferred for all-white birds. It also has to do with how much corn they get in their diets, since the carotene can show up in the feathering. I have a recessive white EE that is a little brassy, but still very clean white. He kind of threw me when he hatched, because he came from blue parents and I thought he was splash, but when he started feathering out white, I realized that his parents were carriers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2009

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