Dominique Thread!

[centrarchid]

Gary,

My breeding efforts with dominiques is very new, only three years into it. I started out with about 24 birds from six sources / breeders. I got number up to about 120 in first year before deciding only two of the sources where worth my limited resources. Some of the source birds where big but did not lay well or had feather problems that become evident in free-range setting, or they got hammered by large round worms, or got hammered by cocci. Lots of hammering not always by my hands. Culling was rigerous and multiple staged resulting in less than 90% of young from those two desired lines being kept to date. Time will tell if it works. Next year when hatching effort begins anew from those 4 hens and 3 cocks I suspect egg hatch rate will be a problem. It is more than productivity and looks, also must consider reproductive competence which becomes evident as soon as you start single mating birds that have a little age on them. If you have a single male from some of my matings, odds pretty good you will have poor hatch from some matings. This is a problem in my flock to be resolved before I feel comfortable putting birds out for others to make more of. I also do not have handle on how to properly and legally ship birds. You would likely have to pick birds up and they would be largely grown and products of a culling and not best birds.

 

[diriel]

Centrarchid,

Thanks for the upfront reply. I will definitely be keeping an eye on this thread for the long haul. In the next 2-4 years I hope to be in a more country / county setting where I can enjoy having some chickens properly. In the mean time Perhaps a few inquiries about heritage RIR's are in order. One of these days however, I would like to have some really nice Dominique's!

Have a good one,
Gary
P.S. Didn't you mention Missouri Dominiques? Were those the cross outs with the American Game? How is that project coming along?

 

[centrarchid]

Centrarchid,

Thanks for the upfront reply. I will definitely be keeping an eye on this thread for the long haul. In the next 2-4 years I hope to be in a more country / county setting where I can enjoy having some chickens properly. In the mean time Perhaps a few inquiries about heritage RIR's are in order. One of these days however, I would like to have some really nice Dominique's!

Have a good one,
Gary
P.S. Didn't you mention Missouri Dominiques? Were those the cross outs with the American Game? How is that project coming along?

Gary,

Check for someone more local with American Dominiques. One of the problems I found is that birds acquired from long ways off were more challenged by my local parasite issues. I do not keep any birds requiring medications so such treated birds go out door causing heavy losses early even though not by death.



Missouri Dominiques are a blast. I got lucky with my games providing a gene needed to give crisp barring even though feathers grow faster than those of American Dominiques. Three different games used and one has a gene that made so foreign color did not leak through. One line is simply an F2 hybrid where F1's where simply breed to F1's. This group is furthest along with respect to feathering. They are more gracile in frame which I see no reason to select against. The other lines are where same lot of F1 hens were backcrossed to my best American Dominque cocks. Lots of variation with respect to foreign color but growth rate is very good, Chicks muscle up like pure games while putting on frame relatively fast like pure American Dominiques. They also truely free range well but this year has not been typical challenge owing to drought. At this point the back crossed stags are all heterozygous for barring gene so can not be sexed based on down at hatch but other differences evident. Combs not as good in all but that will be one of the last problems fixed. Productivity and type come first. A will let foriegn color persist for a few more generations. Will be going into winter with about 18 of these guys as I have to tie up more breeding pens for games.

 

[buffalogal]

I know a bull is an adult, intact, male bovine and a stag is a male cervid. It's also what people who fight game chickens call a cock. But what is a "bullstag" or "bullpullet" ? I understand why you aren't calling it a "roo", but why isn't it simply a cock or cockerel or pullet?

BTW, nice looking Dominiques.

 

[centrarchid]

I know a bull is an adult, intact, male bovine and a stag is a male cervid. It's also what people who fight game chickens call a cock. But what is a "bullstag" or "bullpullet" ? I understand why you aren't calling it a "roo", but why isn't it simply a cock or cockerel or pullet?

BTW, nice looking Dominiques.

I grew up in a cocker background so that influences my word usage.

Cock and cockerel are both terms used by most folks using "proper" terminology. .

Stag = cockerel in everyway I understand.

Bullstag is a stag / cockerel that has a full complement of adult feathers that are no longer in blood / growing. Such birds behave differenly from a less mature stag.

Bullpullet is term I use because it is consistent with usage of bullstag although once a female starts laying I have no problems calling her a hen.

Bullstag and bullpullet are both sexually competent and able to reproduce. They are also slightly smaller than same individuals would be as cock and hen, respectively. Addtionally the cock has noticeable larger feathers, especially sicle feathers, on tail than he does as a stag. Ditto for spurs but difference is continous.

Transition from bull_______ to cock or hen complete when second set of adult feathers fully in place.

The terms used by cockers in my opinion are biologically siginificant in that correspond to life history changes. Outside the cockers interest, the criteria distinguishing cockerel verses cock and pullet verses hen are based on age only and that does not hold up across all breeds equally well. Transition from bull______ to cock / hen with respect to age can vary with hatch date since molt is a seasonal event.


Thanks for compliment. Still have numerous issues to address.

 

[diriel]

Is it known more or less what original types of chickens went into the makeup of the Dominique? I would suppose it might be worth trying to "re-build" the breed from the ground up. I know that RIR's are pretty much known what went into them. I would imagine it would be quite the project, but then trying to resurrect a breed whose genetics have been >< damaged so badly by near extinction a few times seems pretty difficult as well.

As for me, I want a dual purpose breed in the spirit of the colonial homesteaders. A breed that is relatively low maintenance. With the direction the economy still seems to be going, and the fact that REAL food is getting hard to come by anymore, I think becoming a good bit more self sufficient is a pretty good ideal. You just can not easily find or afford wholesome food anymore.

Ok, I am climbing off of my soap box
Gary

 

[buffalogal]

If you REALLY want a bird like the colonial homesteaders had, plan to raise it like they did; 100% free range, no processed feed, with all the chicks hatched and raised by a broody hen (of the same breed).

 

[centrarchid]

If you REALLY want a bird like the colonial homesteaders had, plan to raise it like they did; 100% free range, no processed feed, with all the chicks hatched and raised by a broody hen (of the same breed).

Also having some other livestock, expecially grazers can make such effort much more doable. Also make so barnyard is more complex with respect of types of plants and cover present. During night, out birds roosted in loft and over manger. During day they associated with heavy brush like black berry and paw-paw patches but could forage in several small pastures grazers were rotated through. Egg collection best done to prevent chicks from being on ground prior to mid spring as earlier hatches reliant upon natural forages will be at mercey of weather making survival very eratic. Got to have dogs to keep predators out and they need not be the big LGD's but rather mid-sized dogs that can sleep in barn / shed with stock.

Graining livestock makes huge difference on number of birds you can raise. Winter management will differ greatly from production season. Term "spring chicken" will also acquire real meaning as your brood birds will tend to be older and proven since hen in second and greater production seasons are generally more consistent mothers. Age groups during summer will be more discrete.

I could go on all day with this concept since this is how we raised birds on many of our walks as well. It was fun and challenging as we learned what characteristics a quality walk had.

 

[diriel]

Right at the moment I still live in the city. In the next 2-3 years I hope to move back to the country so I can have chickens again. I used to love to watch the baby chicks follow their mother around and learn the ropes. I would occasionally use the incubator to hatch additional chicks as well, but it was never quite as satisfying as watching a broody hen hatch her own.

@centrarchid,
So how are those Missouri Dominiques coming? More info on those would be nice!

Have a good one,
Gary

 

[centrarchid]

Right at the moment I still live in the city. In the next 2-3 years I hope to move back to the country so I can have chickens again. I used to love to watch the baby chicks follow their mother around and learn the ropes. I would occasionally use the incubator to hatch additional chicks as well, but it was never quite as satisfying as watching a broody hen hatch her own.

@centrarchid,
So how are those Missouri Dominiques coming? More info on those would be nice!

Have a good one,
Gary

Updated account is in post # 1573. All taken into account pretty good. By time I am done they will be superior to existing American Dominique when comes to the free-range productivity and parenting ability as both characteristics coming from American Game. Next year, generation three, efforts will be completely uncoupled from American Dominique project because selection process at that time will be operating on a population that is 75% American Dominique, ~20% American Game, and ~ 5% California Grey with no further need for American Dominique infusion. Some where I have a thread on the Missouri Dominique showing pictures of F1's. It will be updated with some of same birds plus F2's once molt complete. And I can find thread.