Ellie - 9/25 Update - Egg! Thread has med info in case helps others

[jjthink]

Brenda/SC, thanks for your dual efforts! I can't get in on the "other side" today. Hopefully it's the site hiccuping and not my computer! This is the nasty little message that I get: Warning: mysql_connect(): Unknown MySQL server host 'cdb1-1' (2) in /var/www/html/utils/configs/prod.conf on line 20 Unknown MySQL server host 'cdb1-1' (2). Crazy computer speak!

Ginny/Luna, it really must be chicken mystery ailment month! Ugh. Hope your girl will be alright.

d.k., thanks!

bwebb7 and mypicklebird, thanks for your take on the Metacam. Sigh - vets office didn't call me back so I'll have to call them shortly. They really irritate me but they have you cornered when there are no other nearby avian vets and the birds get so stressed travelling even that far.

mypicklebird, thanks for taking the time to realy all that blood work info - I really appreciate it. So nice of you to spend the time - hopefully others with similar problems can gain from all this......

This is all the report says:
CBC: WBC 22.5 (x1000/ul), RBC 2.53 (x1000000/ul), hematocrit 27, heterophils 85, lymphocytes 15, monocytes 0, eosinophils 0, basophils 0, blood parasites negative, thrombocyte morphology normal, WBC morphology large lymphocytes present
Basic Chem Profile: hemolysis index 0, lipemia index 0, glucose 255, calcium 15.2, uric acid 2.8, total protein 7.2 (reference range 4.2-5, one of the few items where a reference range was provided), AST 286, CPK >1600 even with dilution`
Electrophoresis: total protein 7.2 as noted above, A/G ratio .29 LO (ref range .8-1.0), pre-albumin 0, albumin 1.63 LO (ref range 2.3-3,2), alpha 1 globulins .71 HI (ref range .07-.28), aplha 2 globulins 1.16 HI (ref range .29-.69), beta globulins 2.7 HI (ref range .63-1.16), gamma globulins 1.01 (ref range .63-1.14) The alpha 1, 2 and beta globulins are increased - these fractions can increase non specifically with acute inflammation.
Cholesterol 80

You're all so kind - thanks. JJ

 

[mypicklebird]

glucose, uric acid and calcium all in published reference ranges for domestic fowl aka chicken. I can't tell from your post whether the heterophil and lymphocyte numbers are totals or percentages. heterophil is the avian equivalent of a neutrophil (the white blood cell that typically gets excited and elevated in sudden bacterial infections, inflammation ect, or stress). Lymphocytes go down with stress and some virals, and up with some virals and infections. Monocytes go up with chronic infections and inflammations.

A common "stress leukogram" for a bird would be high heterophils and low lymphocytes. You might enquire to your vet if the cells looked toxic, or have the vet ask the lab to have a pathologist review the blood smear if they still have it. The CBC chages and high CK results may be just due to crazy chicken in the car stress. Toxic changes would be more supportive of bacterial infection.
Looking at some of the reference ranges I have (to correct my earlier post), total WBC of 22,000 is not out of all of them. Over 12,000 in a mammal is high, 22,000 would be very concerning. In a chicken or turkey- not that high. Most labs when asked will print reference ranges. Ask your vet to put in, or ask the lab to put in reference ranges for the species.

CK is a muscle enzyme that leaks out when there is muscle damage- heat stroke damage, struggling, muscle trauma (HB car, seizure ect). It comes from other places too, but mostly we see it due to muscle stress/damage.
Sorry no direct help here from me, but hopefully this helps you understand the tests better. Jess

 

[jjthink]

Quote:
Sorry about that! They're percentages.

Re: WBC, vet said 10,000-12,000 would be normal.

Is the CK you refer to same as CPK on the report?

You are super - thank you!

I'll see if the lab can give me any more info...at least reference ranges.......

JJ

Edited to add that the lab won't tell me anything.....thought that might be the case but I was hoping they would just be helpful!

 

[SpottedCrow]

YUKU's been messed up so it's not just you, Judy.

How does she seem today?

 

[mypicklebird]

Oops- yes, CK is the same thing as CPK.
Also I meant to say- ask the vet/vet staff to call the lab about adding reference ranges. If they run samples from a species, they should have reference ranges for the same species. ISIS can usually provide reference ranges to labs if they do not have them on hand.
I think a very useful piece of info for the lab to provide to your vet is a path review of the blood smear for toxic changes- this will help differentiate the stress leukogram from a bird whose high WBC is from infection/inflammation.
The lab probably won't want to talk directly to you, their client is the vet office, and they won't want to be the intermediate.




Quote:
Sorry about that! They're percentages.

Re: WBC, vet said 10,000-12,000 would be normal.

Is the CK you refer to same as CPK on the report?

You are super - thank you!

I'll see if the lab can give me any more info...at least reference ranges.......

JJ

Edited to add that the lab won't tell me anything.....thought that might be the case but I was hoping they would just be helpful!

 

[jjthink]

Thanks for checking on her Brenda

, Same update both places, in case you read the other first.....

Just got home and wallah, she is molting like a madwoman (hopefully it's just molting - will check for "quills"). Black feathers EVERYWHERE like there's been a pillow fight. This may happily explain the cessation of eggs, even tho that occurred exactly when she went down for the count sick on Labor Day. Last year, Annie (RIP) stopped laying eggs 10 days before her molt started, about the same as with Ellie now.

I just noticed some milky yellow poo (like that French vanilla ice cream that is definitely a yellow vanilla...) that I'm sure is Ellie's - don't know how to interpret - have also seen her have normal looking poo since this adventure began on Labor Day, as well as this yellowy stuff.

It's pouring - BJ roo ran out and promptly ate about 75 fat longggggggggg worms (no exaggeration - I have never seen that boy do such a thing! Probably fueling up on protein since he looks like a porcupine with his molt). Ellie had no interest in going out in the rain - maybe she's feeling out of sorts with losing feathers wildly...don't know. Anyway, time for her meds now (and another bathing of my eye in her antibiotic).

Jess, thank you for that clarifying info and for all your helpful knowledge! I'll ask the vets office - they are pretty lax about responding to stuff but I am going to try. (The lab said they would at least fax me reference ranges but never did

)

JJ

 

[jjthink]

UPDATE in case Ellie's symptoms, test results and current state of affairs help anybody else:

It's September 25th and Ellie has just laid her first egg since Labor Day when she first took very ill. It is kind of long and narrow and but perfect in every other way. So maybe, just maybe, her problem wasn't/isn't reproductive (altho the antibiotic and anti-inflammatory may be masking that temporarily). I'm inclined to think the problem was something else because her eggs had been a-okay right up till she got sick, then 10 days later she began molting like mad and now she's stopping dropping feathers. It seems as though the cessation of eggs was molt-related.

Antibiotic was finished at least a week ago and anti-inflammatory finished 2 days ago. Anybody have insight as to how long before the eggs can be eaten? I give them away but want to do so safely. If it's too soon yet, I imagine I would be medicating her if I feed them back to her...thus prolonging again the time when her eggs would be "clean". Poor dear is so happy to be done with the meds - it was along processs every morning and night dribbling meds slowly along her beak, and then her flicking her beak to wing the stuff into my eyes.

Hoping she's winning in the battle with whatever slam-dunked her so hard and fast. She seems alright - yesterday she dug up half the lawn. Literally, roots and all, over and out. I was just glad she had the will to do it.

JJ

 

[SpottedCrow]

I think it's 2 or 3 weeks Judy...

I'm so glad to hear that Ellie's doing so much better. You must've been happy to see that darned egg too.

Sometimes a ton of stress can bring on eggdysfunction and a moult...she had just been moved and stuff, maybe that was part of it too.

Hugs to all 3 of you.

 

[Lunachick]

Yay! Good for her, glad to hear she's improving, Spotted Crow is right, just after two weeks is good. That's what I've done, and I'm ok !

My girl is getting better too, perky little self, one semi-mushy egg the other day, but she's off meds too. And she might be going through the seasonal thing also.

So far, so good. Wishing you and your chooks the best.

 

[Zookeeper9000]

I am so glad to see this update and that it is a postive one.

Still keeping you and yours in my prayers