F1, BC, etc. nomenclature

[pinewoodacres]

I'm collecting eggs from a variety of hens penned with an F1 male and I'm working on my breeding spreadsheet where I track parentage and results, etc. I am not sure what to call the progeny of some of these.

One is an F1 hen so that would result in F2 progeny - easy. But I also have him with two BC1 hens (and they were both backcrossed to different parent birds, one from each breed of my initial pairing) and one that's an F2.

The F1xF2 have progeny referred to as F2 still, is that right? What the heck are the F1xBC1 progeny called? This naming aspect helps me wrap my head around what's going on with the genetics so any help is appreciated.

 

[pinewoodacres]

Just thinking about this:

The BC1 girls are F1 x parent, so really, going back to an F1 would be like a BC2, or is BC2 only going back to the parent bird again?

 

[NatJ]

The F1xF2 have progeny referred to as F2 still, is that right? What the heck are the F1xBC1 progeny called? This naming aspect helps me wrap my head around what's going on with the genetics so any help is appreciated.

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer, and I don't know who else might either.

It seems like there should be a logical, simple way to sort it out, but I just can't find it.

It's really easy to find information that tells just as much as you already know. Beyond that, I haven't had any success turning it up either.

I tried a few google searches, with rather disappointing results. It's discussed by people breeding "doodle" dogs, or marijuana plants, or tomato plants & other garden plants, or laboratories selling mice.

But I haven't found any that address how to name the F1 x BC1 progeny, or even the F1 x F2 generation. I found a few references to using C for a "complex cross," but that was when they were crossing F1s to something else, such as (AxB) x C or (AxC) x (CxD), which isn't really what you are doing either.

If anyone does show up with the answer, I'll be glad to see it too

 

[AusHen]

it's complicated and everyone will tell you something different but this is the way I see it.

Pure x Pure = F1
F1 x F1 = F2
F2 x F1 = F3
F2 x F2 also = F3
F3 x F1, F2 or F3 = F4

BC is how many times you cross back to a pure bird
F1 x pure breed = BC1
BC1 x pure breed = BC2
BC2 x pure breed = BC3

Breeding any number of F from F1 to F8 back to a pure bird is considered the first back back cross
F1 x pure breed =BC1
F2 x Pure breed = BC1 or F2BC1
F3 x pure breed = BC1 or F3BC1

When breeding F's and BC I treat the BC as if it were a F1 and so forth since your not actually back crossing to a pure breed
F1 x BC1 = F2.
F1 x BC2 = F3
F2 x BC1 or BC2 = F3

I really hope this makes sense

 

[Reave]

I've always heard it taught you increment from the parent with the latest generation, like Aushen's example of F1xF2 = F3, just the same as F2xF2 = 3, but I see why people would want to separate out those two kinds of breedings, so using BC1 makes sense in that context! Same with OC for outcross if necessary -- since it's for the sake of personal record-keeping most of the time, I suppose the most important part is being consistent in your terminology so you can keep everything organized.

 

[pinewoodacres]

it's complicated and everyone will tell you something different but this is the way I see it.

Pure x Pure = F1
F1 x F1 = F2
F2 x F1 = F3
F2 x F2 also = F3
F3 x F1, F2 or F3 = F4

BC is how many times you cross back to a pure bird
F1 x pure breed = BC1
BC1 x pure breed = BC2
BC2 x pure breed = BC3

Breeding any number of F from F1 to F8 back to a pure bird is considered the first back back cross
F1 x pure breed =BC1
F2 x Pure breed = BC1 or F2BC1
F3 x pure breed = BC1 or F3BC1

When breeding F's and BC I treat the BC as if it were a F1 and so forth since your not actually back crossing to a pure breed
F1 x BC1 = F2.
F1 x BC2 = F3
F2 x BC1 or BC2 = F3

I really hope this makes sense

This is kind of what I settled on (the last part)! For my spreadsheet, I am putting something like F2a for the F1xBC1 to Legbar and F2b for the Welsummer BC. That may get more confusing in the long run, though!

I appreciate all the replies! I am trying not to go back to any purebreds at this point, the various crosses carry more desirable traits than the original parents. I’m hoping to really get selective after these hatch and start stabilizing traits with the progeny. I’ll have to come up with other nomenclature later this year or next when I cross these.