Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[gjensen]

There would be so many different breeds, if there was a best bird. It is finding what you think is able to meet your needs and suits your fancy.

 

[Arielle]

Maybe everyone can write a 1 paragraph synopisis of each of the breeds their working on.

 

[Maggiesdad]

Hey southernmomma

The reason there are so many varieties to choose from is that people are different, and locales are different. It's up to you to know which one tickles the cockles of your heart... the breed that looks so good to you that you could spend two hours of an evening just watching them range. I know - it's better than television!

You may or may not be able to find what you want that will brood you chicks in the right amount at the right time to meet your meat/egg needs. Maybe reconsider the incubation part if you are definitely locked to one breed, not a secondary brooder breed.

I'm starting to know my chosen breed's in and outs now, I know when I want to process and at what size, when to hatch to have pullet eggs through the winter while my hens are off duty. I caponize the cull males that I want to grow out, spatchcock the younguns that I don't want to grow out. The incubator lets me run a smaller flock with my particular breed than I would have to have to hatch naturally. I know now that my breeding plans aren't just - get a grand trio and blammo I'm a chicken man, but instead thoughtful and learned planning that spans years... provided the predators don't clean me out!
It's definitely a journey, not a destination.

 

[Arielle]

Hey everyone-- it would be helpful to this newcomer and future newcomers to be very specific not give the vague answers that leave a newcomer frustrated. Perhaps it would be more useful to give Southern Momma the dirt on the breed and variety that you have so she can start to understand the differences clearly. Maybe one of YOU have the breed/strain that tickles her fancy.

 

[gjensen]

Ask YH about his Dorkings. That would be an interesting breed/variety to keep.

 

[southernmomma]

Characteristics as you have described are influenced by the actual breed of chicken, but also are influenced by the breeder and what they are selecting for when they breed.

You can get birds that are bred to the SOP from one breeder that have different characteristics from a breeder down the road because one might be breeding to the SOP and looking more at conformation and feather coloring in order to win show ribbons, while another breeder is breeding to the SOP but is also examining their birds and trying to incorporate their utility functions into the offspring. And you can get birds with the same breed name from a hatchery with different or same characteristics that come from a small breeder. Breeder selection plays a big part of what you're gonna get in a chicken.

Agreed. I would definitely be searching for breeder that had an eye to type for utility purposes. I've seen it referred to as farm quality.

And what is your expectation of meat on a bird? The meat birds sold by hatcheries are MEATY - they are bred for that and if you don't slaughter them early, they'll keel over with a heart attack. A "heritage"/standard bred bird is not going to have as much meat on them as many people expect, because they usually are expecting carcasses with giant breasts on them and tons of meat in comparison to bone. Yes, there are "heritage" birds that are known more for their meat, but they still aren't going to compare to those meat hybrid birds that most people think of. So knowing how much meat you realistically expect and where the meat is concentrated at on the bird is something to consider when choosing birds.

We're familiar with the cornish X and have visited a farm that grows them. Not for us, lol. Hardly suitable for upping our food reliance We eat wild game quite a bit--I think heritage birds will be in keeping with that in terms of how different they are in look/weight/taste compared to conventional meat.

And you need to look at how much work you are wanting to do both now and in the future, when it comes to breeding. Any bird that you have, if you keep it for generations as you have indicated you would like to do, requires constant attention to breeding and husbandry in order to continue to pass on the traits that you are looking for.

You have to weigh the birds, handle and examine the birds, and make breeding choices and husbandry choices that will keep passing on the best traits to the offspring and help them achieve their potential. You would have to do this whether you got hatchery stock or stock from an SOP breeder, or you run the real risk of having the traits that you want, disappear farther down the line as you continue to hatch birds out.

Yes! I've been reading up on breeding for production on this forum and a doc from ALBC. I can't wait to test myself and put myself in that position of greater learning I hope to connect with people in my area that can help me with the "hands on" aspect in the beginning.

You say you don't want hatchery stock because you want your descendants to be able to still utilize the offspring of the original foundation flock. You could have birds that meet your list of desires that come from hatchery stock. You can breed those hatchery birds and select for broodiness, foraging ability, meat, and eggs, in the offspring without regard for anything else and still have your great grandchildren utilizing those birds.

I've been cautioned against hatchery quality again and again--I felt it might not be baseless. Perhaps I should investigate further.

With getting standard bred birds, there is more to them than most people think. Most people see feather color/placement on a chicken first, so they don't realize that there are a lot of physical nuances to a breed. That's where the Standard of Perfection (SOP) comes in. That gives a blueprint of what the birds are supposed to look like with other characteristics, not just what feather color they have. If you put a hatchery Rhode Island Red up next to a standard bred Rhode Island Red, you'd be able to see subtle differences. But there's even more work to be done with breeding selection if you are going to keep that bird as close to the SOP as you can.

I've seen some comparison photos....astonishing differences to my eye, some not even looking remotely like the other of the same breed name!

So while you are thinking about these desires for good foragers, broodiness, and how much meat you want on each carcass and where the meat is located on that carcass, you need to look at how much more work you are going to be putting in to breeding. If you don't really care what they look like, and don't want to breed to the SOP, it would be cheaper and easier to get hatchery stock than to spend the money on standard bred stock from a breeder because you can still get birds with the traits you've listed as desirable from a hatchery or from a backyard breeder of chickens.

I have obviously been terribly unclear. I intend to breed to the SOP to the best of my ability, with a willingness to sacrifice plumage for correct type and production. I would hope to one day have a bird that was not only aesthetically correct but also a productive farm worker

For us, there was more than just the traits such as what you listed when we looked at breeds. We wanted a good homestead bird and we liked the historical aspects of Javas. Our birds, like nearly all Javas, need work since they were left to flounder in the 20th century, but they meet our needs and we've been happy with them. But they may not meet everyone's expectations.

The historical aspects are just one of the reasons I'm drawn to heritage birds over something like the meat breed you mentioned--it lends meaning to things.

Javas were considered the finest table fowl in the 1800s. They have large meaty legs but they don't have a ton of breast meat. They have large bones too - makes for great broth. But if you're looking for giant breasts and lots of meat with small bones, then they may not be for you. Javas have large bones to support their weight - you're going to get more meat with smaller bones if you go with the meat hybrid birds - that's why the modern meat birds often suffer broken legs because their skeleton can't support the weight as well. Our birds dress out generally at 4 - 5 1/2 pounds. We still have a small flock so the ones we butcher now are culls - usually culls for size, not big enough. But there is plenty of meat on one carcass to have a roast chicken and for two of us, plenty of meat on that one carcass for at least one meal and usually leftovers. So again your expectation of how much meat is acceptable comes into play.

Our birds go broody all the time, but not everyone's Javas go broody as often. Broody birds aren't laying as much as non-broody birds, so broodiness is a trait more easily lost if eggs from broody hens aren't being hatched and the offspring kept as breeders. That's why some hatchery lines of birds don't go broody much at all.

We have some that are foraging fools, others not so much. Again, it's a trait that is learned as well as passed on through breeding.

Because Javas are dual purpose birds, they are not egg laying machines. But due to it being just my husband and I, and the fact that we have more than just a handful of birds, we still have way more eggs than we can use.

It's so hard to tell you and others "this is the best bird" when you ask, because there is so much more to choosing a breed. And much is dependent on your expectations as well as your finances to buy birds as well as house/feed birds, and the amount of work you want to put into the birds for the long haul to continue to have birds that meet your list of desired traits. There are just so many variables that you can't account for, making it hard to tell someone which breed is best - especially since you say that you've already decided against some breeds for whatever reasons, and you don't care about looks as much. I've started thinking that most people might be better off to just start out with some hatchery stock that catches their eye and see how it goes with a few years of breeding and processing. Sometimes it is difficult to truly understand all the nuances and what you like and don't like until you have more hands on experience trying to fully homestead with them - because it can be hard to figure out how to narrow things down and know what is a realistic expectation in a bird until you actually start working with them and seeing how breeder selected traits and husbandry affect what you get from them.

Something else I thought of for you to think about - how much chicken meat are you wanting to raise? Are you wanting to raise all of your chicken meat needs or just have some occasionally? And how much chicken does your family eat? You'll need a good bit of space to raise enough standard bred birds to meet all your family's chicken meat needs as compared to getting modern meat birds that are ready for slaughter at a young age. Standard bred stock is slower to grow than modern meat birds - which means more housing, for more birds, for a longer time period.

Even though it is just the me and my husband, we need more acreage to raise enough standard bred birds to meet even half of our meat needs, since chicken is our main meat source. We do have the goal of moving to a larger farm, but until then, our homegrown chickens to eat are more of a treat than a staple because we just don't have the room to hatch and raise as many of our Javas as we would need to never go to the grocery store for chicken.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful post, I appreciate your time.
M

 

[southernmomma]

There would be so many different breeds, if there was a best bird. It is finding what you think is able to meet your needs and suits your fancy.


Hey southernmomma

The reason there are so many varieties to choose from is that people are different, and locales are different. It's up to you to know which one tickles the cockles of your heart... the breed that looks so good to you that you could spend two hours of an evening just watching them range. I know - it's better than television!

You may or may not be able to find what you want that will brood you chicks in the right amount at the right time to meet your meat/egg needs. Maybe reconsider the incubation part if you are definitely locked to one breed, not a secondary brooder breed.

I'm starting to know my chosen breed's in and outs now, I know when I want to process and at what size, when to hatch to have pullet eggs through the winter while my hens are off duty. I caponize the cull males that I want to grow out, spatchcock the younguns that I don't want to grow out. The incubator lets me run a smaller flock with my particular breed than I would have to have to hatch naturally. I know now that my breeding plans aren't just - get a grand trio and blammo I'm a chicken man, but instead thoughtful and learned planning that spans years... provided the predators don't clean me out!
It's definitely a journey, not a destination.


I do believe it's best that I simply continue doing my best to work through the possibilities. At some point I'll just need to decide-- perhaps then I'll be able to ask more pointed questions. My current request is too vague and difficult to answer--I'll work on specifics! Except for the incubator....on that I will not be budged

Cheers,
M

 

[southernmomma]

Hey everyone-- it would be helpful to this newcomer and future newcomers to be very specific not give the vague answers that leave a newcomer frustrated. Perhaps it would be more useful to give Southern Momma the dirt on the breed and variety that you have so she can start to understand the differences clearly. Maybe one of YOU have the breed/strain that tickles her fancy.

Very sweet of you to take up for me---I think this may be too cumbersome for this thread.

Thank you though
M

 

[Beekissed]

Very sweet of you to take up for me---I think this may be too cumbersome for this thread.

Thank you though
M

Look into Marans, Buckeyes and White Rocks. Big, meaty, has the traits you are looking for, though the WRs will have better laying than the Marans in most cases.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Everyone finds "their" breed and their variety of that breed. Some shift gears as they go along and there's no shame in doing so. Sometimes, one finds a strain of a breed that so stinkin' pleases them that they wouldn't trade anything for them. Sometimes it is just a matter of their temperament that clicks in your own heart and soul

Sometimes it is the breed's mannerisms and silly stuff, like the way they forage or walk or handle themselves that pleases you. We're people. We like art and music and nature and in some breeds, those traits come together in a way that pleases us enough to get up in the freezing cold dark of January to do chores. Motivation comes from passion, a love for the breed and for the birds.

Sometimes it is not just a connection to the heritage of the breed but one's own heritage, a memory of a grandparent who kept the breed and taught you things when you were a child. We're humans and such things leave a mark in us. Maybe it is a memory from walking the poultry house aisles at the county fair and seeing breed that struck your fancy, from whence comes the term, fancy. It is what we fancy.

For me, it is Rocks and Reds. Rocks because I learned Rocks at my grandmother's apron strings in the 1950's. She would not approve of my Reds as my grandfather never permitted a Red bird on his property, but hey, I enjoy them to no end. The Rock is a bit better at meat perhaps, but both lay eggs as well as a breed needs to lay eggs. They are different and each bring a smile to my face. This is too much work not to enjoy it. It needs to be pleasing for it to be rewarding.