Fermented feed question

[lauranickerson]

From Natural Chicken Keeping:

While not a starter culture used in lacto-fermenting, it (ACV) can be added to lacto-fermented feed at any time in small amounts for its other great benefits!

Since I prefer - and use - lacto-fermentation, one of my goals is to keep naturally occurring yeasts/molds/fungus from proliferating in the feed so that the LABs can be dominant in the mix.

As stated above..For LACTO-FERMENTATION my personal "rule of thumb" is:

If I can smell yeast/mold or alcohol, I don't feed it to my chickens.

When these smells are present and strong enough for me to notice, I know the LABs are out of balance and yeasts or alcohol are becoming more dominant.

To help illustrate with an example with which most are familiar: consider a candida overgrowth in our bodies. (Commonly referred to as a "yeast" infection.) Although yeasts are always present in our systems, it is the balance that is the issue. When yeasts are kept in balance, it allows the "good bacteria" to proliferate in our system and create a healthy gut flora which helps our immune system to do its job. If the yeasts get out of balance in our body, we take action to help correct the imbalance and return the "good bacteria" to dominance.

If I ever smell either yeasts/molds or alcohol in my feed I have used ACV to help quickly bring the pH level down (increase acid) which (in moderation) can help retard the growth of the yeasts and allow the Acetobacter bacteria that's contained in the ACV mother to digest any alcohol that may have been produced by naturally occurring yeasts. When used in small amounts, it can retard the growth of the yeasts just enough to allow the LABs enough time to re-establish a dominant colony that is able to keep the molds/yeasts in check.

Okay thanks! I'll try adding a little AVC! I don't do lacto-fermentation, so hopefully it will still work.

That's probably what has been giving a couple of my birds the runs, huh...

 

[Homestead girl]

Well I have my first 5 gallon bucket of FF , It has been brewing for a week now and the chickens love it. It started fermenting within 36 hours. I put in the 12 scratch and covered it with water and them I added the chick starter to it .
It doesn't smell bad at all, it sort of has a bread dough smell to it. It just keeps on bubbling .
I am amazed at how a little of the FF goes a long way with the chickens. I have noticed they get full when they eat and are more satisfied. Also I have noticed that the chicken poop is more solid and looks like it is supposed to look, also the smell with the poop is not as strong as when fed dry food.
They are also out of the coop and get to forage now for a few hours a day and are eating lot's more bugs and anything that is green.
This has been a great learning experience for me. I love it.

 

[lauranickerson]

I just noticed something with my new batch from yesterday: FRUIT FLIES. Is there any way to get rid of them? They go nuts for the vinegar smell. Do they even pose a problem? If not, I won't take so many preventative measures.

 

[lauranickerson]

Also, is this mold or the mother? It was my batch I mentioned earlier that smelled of alcohol. I tried adding ACV, but it didn't do much, and when I came back to it a couple days later (I kind of forgot about it because I had a different batch), it had this while film on the top. Didn't smell that great. I threw it in the compost pile and soaked the bucket for 2 days with bleach water just in case.

I feel like that batch was a total failure because after making a batch in it before, I finished the batch, quickly rinsed it, and put the bucket away with the top on. It was still wet inside when I put the lid on, with some food remnants in there. When I went to go use it the second time, it had fuzzy mold in it. Rinsed it with AVC water, but the batch turned into the grossness mentioned above. Thought bleach water would be a little more effective.

So far so good. Lots of bubbling and smells like it should. Just worried about the fruit flies.

EDITED because I forgot the picture. Here's the batch I forgot about. I want to say it's mold, but I'm not sure.

 

[naadarien]

Hello all,

I'm a San Diego, CA newbie to BYC and to chicken keeping in general.  I read http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/p/fermented-feed.html and I want to start fermenting Scratch and Peck non-GMO Grower feed (17% protein) for my three 11-week-old pullets.

I tried to read the "Fermented Feeds for Meat Birds" thread (https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/644300/fermenting-feed-for-meat-birds), but 555 pages was a lot to take in . . . what I did read there suggested the containers needed exposure to the air and to use only a cheese cloth or towel on top. Is that suggestion only for the Apple Cider Vinegar fermenting?  I thought the Lacto fermenting needed an air-tight container?

I was hoping to use a 2L Pickl-It container http://www.pickl-it.com/ for Lacto fermenting feed for only 3 chickens, but now I am worried about the possibility of mold given the prior cheese cloth recommendations.

I am also worried that maybe the 17% protein content of the Scratch and Peck grower feed is too high?  The Natural Chicken Keeping blog said 16% should be fine . . . but again, I'm new to all this.

Any suggestions are appreciated!

Lacto fermentation only requires a 1/2 to 1 inch cover of water to protect the feed. It doesn't require an air-tight container. I do lay a plastic lid over the containers, but that is to keep pests out (gnats, flies)....

 

[ash10383]

I fed ff for my layers for a couple months, but when I got my meaties it was too much to have 2 types of feed going so I kept the meaties going on ff but went back to dry feed for the layers with the intention of going back to ff when the meaties were gone. While I noticed they eat more feed when its dry, I was having a broken egg in the nesting boxes 4-5 times a week that is no longer happening. I thought I noticed an increase in broken eggs when I started ff but just told myself it was unrelated but now that I stopped ff and haven't had a broken egg in the nesting boxes since they went back to dry feed it's hard not point the finger at the ff. They always have oyster shell available so it's kind of strange. I will likely go back to the ff when the meaties are gone to see if I notice the broken eggs becoming more frequent again before I stop completely.

 

[lauranickerson]

Anyone know about the fruit flies? Are they okay or what should I do to get rid of them?

 

[naadarien]

I fed ff for my layers for a couple months, but when I got my meaties it was too much to have 2 types of feed going so I kept the meaties going on ff but went back to dry feed for the layers with the intention of going back to ff when the meaties were gone. While I noticed they eat more feed when its dry, I was having a broken egg in the nesting boxes 4-5 times a week that is no longer happening. I thought I noticed an increase in broken eggs when I started ff but just told myself it was unrelated but now that I stopped ff and haven't had a broken egg in the nesting boxes since they went back to dry feed it's hard not point the finger at the ff. They always have oyster shell available so it's kind of strange. I will likely go back to the ff when the meaties are gone to see if I notice the broken eggs becoming more frequent again before I stop completely.

Maybe they're eating something that counterbalancing the calcium. Magnesium blocks calcium. You could check your feed to see if the magnesium has increased. Maybe the fermenting releases higher levels of magnesium? Since vitamin c helps to allow calcium to be absorbed, you might want to provide foods that are high in vit c to balance things out. Just a thought...

 

[naadarien]

Also, is this mold or the mother? It was my batch I mentioned earlier that smelled of alcohol. I tried adding ACV, but it didn't do much, and when I came back to it a couple days later (I kind of forgot about it because I had a different batch), it had this while film on the top. Didn't smell that great. I threw it in the compost pile and soaked the bucket for 2 days with bleach water just in case. I feel like that batch was a total failure because after making a batch in it before, I finished the batch, quickly rinsed it, and put the bucket away with the top on. It was still wet inside when I put the lid on, with some food remnants in there. When I went to go use it the second time, it had fuzzy mold in it. Rinsed it with AVC water, but the batch turned into the grossness mentioned above. Thought bleach water would be a little more effective. So far so good. Lots of bubbling and smells like it should. Just worried about the fruit flies. EDITED because I forgot the picture. Here's the batch I forgot about. I want to say it's mold, but I'm not sure.

Wow! That's a Petrie dish. Good call to toss that. It looks more like spores than mold, but yeah...good call.

 

[naadarien]

Anyone know about the fruit flies? Are they okay or what should I do to get rid of them?

Cover the feed with a towel to keep them out?