Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth. Do you know the complete benefits?!?!

[CallyB57]

Below are some links about DE and earthworms. There are many places you can go to read about the DE-earthworm connection..you still might want to ask an expert about earthworms crawling in a 'dry' area where there is DE mixed in the soil.



http://www.ghorganics.com/DiatomaceousEarth.html

http://www.malcolmbeck.com/articles/diatomaceous-earth.htm

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=21

 

[CallyB57]

After this post on DE & earthworms...I am going to another thread, as I want to see pictures of chickens and learn something new. Hope my posts will help some of you.

The following site made a statement about DE & earthworms, which leads me to believe it could harm them. Statement is below link.

http://www.zetatalk.com/food/tfoox041.htm


Diatomaceous Earth comes in at least two grades: Horticultural Grade and Food Grade. It's important to use only Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth if you're using it to store grains. If you want to use it on plants, don't get any on the flowers. It'll slice up the few honeybees we have left. And I don't recommend incorporating mass quantities into the soil. Earthworms are good things: You don't want to hurt them until you put 'em on your fishhook. Diatomaceous Earth is also effective against fleas, but again, take care not to let your pet breathe it.

 

[vnploveschickens]

I use food grade DE in the pine shavings that I put in my coop floor and nesting boxes. I just sprinkle a little and mix it up. It really keeps the smell away and no flies!!! I have 7 chickens and they've not had any problems with mites or lice or worms. I also mix a little into their feed.

I haven't used any outside the coop. Its so windy here that it would just be flying everywhere.

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
Ok now take this information & explain how DE rids a chicken of internal parasites? Correct me if I'm wrong but it;s damp inside a chicken's gut isn't it?

 

[cgmccary]

Diatomaceous Earth (DE) benefits are all hype. It does not prevent worms nor mites in poultry.

I used it for two years. During that two years is the only time my chickens ever had mites. I noticed no decrease in flies or gnats. I have known several folks who used it in the feed and still had a worm problem. The scientific explanation for the "hows" and "whys" it is supposed to work its wonder does not make sense anyway. And yes, as a former micropaleontologist, I have viewed DE under a microscope many, many times. It is silica and appears no more "sharp" as beach sand.

Honeybees are very sensitive to a number of things, however, and DE, Sevin dust are two of those things. Ladybugs seem to also disappear with the use of these substances. I have read of DE's detrimental effects on eathworms.

For flies, I have been using a solar fly trap combined with a fly-larval eating (gnat-size) wasp and fly eating nematodes (as used at many prominent horse stables.

Personally, given that DE does not do the things it is claimed but since it definitely causes some harm to beneficial insects/organisms, why would you want to use it?

 

[ivan3]

cgmccary wrote: The scientific explanation for the "hows" and "whys" it is supposed to work its wonder does not make sense anyway

It might have something to do with this (weevil suppression in wheat using amorphous silica is the example):

From: http://www.ksu.edu.sa/sites/Colleges/Papers/Papers/1.pdf

The variable effect squares with what I've observed over the past four years: It is relatively effective in suppressing certain species of insects, and it is relatively benign. We mix it in with the sand that serves as the base for bedding in both the turkey and chook housing (greater surface areas tend to speed evaporation).

It cuts down on the fly concentration as well.

To perform your own experiment: Take a cecal poop. Separate into two equal piles. Measure out a small amount of DE (use a straw poked in bag-mark your straw at the level of fill if you wish to repeat a thousand times thereby giving your data some legs). Spread evenly on half the poop (probably be best to place each half poop in its own bottle as well).
Now, count the number/species and length of time flies spend in each bottle. To get serious weigh the amount of DE with a digital scale and repeat using graduated amounts, and make sure spread is even by using a sifter. Repeat experiment with each amount one thousand times.

We also use in the bedding (wood chips primarily with a bit of straw). The soiled bedding is removed daily and immediately placed around the base of plants. Many of the plants are flowers and, considering we're pretty shaded in these woods, grow well, and bloom with a certain refulgence lacking before the poultry arrived. This promotes the bloody honey bees (two hives in White Oak snags that we know of) and the devils JUST MOVED INTO THE ROOF!
Cass doesn't want me to kill them, but they are twenty five feet off the ground in worst possible location for a smoking good time in my SIL's bee suit!

Amorphous silica is pretty good at rerouting Carpenter Ants:

Our Nightcrawlers were out mating last night (warm and rainy) on the soil surface just outside the turkey run, and between the stones just outside the laundry room door - we plant there as well - there were so many Nightcrawlers mating that it looked like a bunch of tube worms around a black smoker on the bottom of the ocean.

DE seems to be a food source for most wasps/hornets and for the Wood Roaches.

ed: The only time we had mites, we brought them in on straw bales (old Reichert-Jung L150 comes in handy now and then).​

 

[sunket77]

if you do get it, don't drop the bag on the ground like a sturdy bag of feed, it will bust and you will loose $$$ and DE! My genius brother did this!

 

[cgmccary]

ivan3 wrote:It cuts down on the fly concentration as well.

I found that DE had no effect on flies. The flies actually increased while I was using it. I was using the DE in the food at 2%, in their dust holes, nest boxes, intheir litter. After I found mites, I snowed the run with the stuff.

I also did my own experiment. I took a hen infested with northern fowl mite. With a dust pistol, I covered her at skin level with food grade DE only. She shook & a cloud of DE drifted through the air. While some mites might have been killed (as if she had taken a dust bath in regular dirt), the mites survived & thrived. Mixing the DE with sevin dust & rotenone of portions 1/3 each & dusting the hen, I found that the mites were significanntly reduced but not totally eliminated.

Treating the hen with Ivermectin drops on the skin of neck killed all the mites.

I do not have a problem with weevils but my chickens like eating them along with the beetles. I observed DE having no effect on large wood roaches whose body surface area is significant. I release ladybugs, green lacewings, praying mantis, the fly eating wasps & nematodes.

When I was speaking to the science of DE, I was primarily referring to the ridiculous claims made that it is an effective "wormer." Parasitic worms have evolved over a very long period of time to invade & inhabit their host. A little DE is not going to "shred" a parasitic worm in a chicken's gut (neither will sand). Normally, there is a balance of worms in any outdoor environment at any time. Healthy chickens keep these parasites at bay. When something else puts stress on your birds, the worms, being opportunistic, may override that natural balance (and that is when you see them).

Breathing silica particles by an animal with lungs may be harmful to that animal over a long period of time as silica is an irritant. If your chickens aren't living long lives anyway, this shouldn't be a concern for you.

Use DE if you want as I see it as rather benign to most creatures. I just believe you are wasting your money. There are many of us who haven't been using DE and we are not having any problems with parasitic worms, mites, lice or flies as well. I know poultry keepers/ breeders who have never used DE and no more problems than someone using it.​

 

[ivan3]

cgmccary wrote: I do not have a problem with weevils

I posted that link as it explains the method of action by which ADE kills arthropods (weevils being the exemplar) and provides a more detailed and useful explanation than is offered on wiki or the like. The effectiveness, as noted, is dependent on relative humidity (the higher the less effective), surface area of the body and thickness of cuticle. So, Slow death by desiccation/dehydration (some insects more intolerant to the action than others).
That ADE retains its activity over long periods of time (in the case of the research cited, 6 months), and is relatively inexpensive (bought two 50lb. bags in 2005 for a total of $48.00 - just opened second bag in May `09), makes it a useful and cost effective adjunct, here.

Poop drys out faster with a desiccant present, flies prefer it wet and stinky.

When I was speaking to the science of DE, I was primarily referring to the ridiculous claims made that it is an effective "wormer

"Ridiculous?" Not a term I can work up an operative definition for but, otherwise, I'm still waiting for a poultry study (with a larger sample size) that parallels that performed in ruminants and agree with you that there is not much there there:
http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/rese...ve_Parasite_Control_for_Sheep_[_Organic_].pdf

Treating the hen with Ivermectin drops on the skin of neck killed all the mites.

Wouldn't bother using anything else. Though only the roo was affected (caught early - checked often) all the rest got `poured on' as a prophylactic.

Breathing silica particles by an animal with lungs may be harmful to that animal over a long period of time as silica is an irritant. If your chickens aren't living long lives anyway, this shouldn't be a concern for you.

As a general nostrum any particulate is suspect. But, as you yourself noted: "And yes, as a former micropaleontologist, I have viewed DE under a microscope many, many times. It is silica and appears no more "sharp" as beach sand."

Both areas (favorite dirt bath for chooks and scrape for turks) are liberally salted with ADE: Chooks are 4yr.4m old/Turks are 4yr. old. There are small amounts of crystalline silica in the topsoil deposited by winds and glaciers.

Thanks for responding and keep those Praying Mantis on patrol (I try to miss them with the brush cutter):

 

[Kaela]

I am fairly new to raising chickens, so I would just like to get this straight. DE may or may not (depending on who you ask) help to control mites and other various pests/insects in regards to your chickens and gardens. Regardless on your opinions about whether this stuff works as people say it does, is this the whole point of using it? (pest/mite control?)

If you don't use it, is there cause to use anything to prevent mites, etc? Do chickens attract so many pests that it is necessary to use something to control them? What do you use in it's place?

Please note that I am not trying to stir the pot or anything. There is so much information and differing opinions on this topic that as a newbie, I am finding it hard to figure out what the deal is, and what I should be doing to protect my chickens.