Free Legal Advice Is Worth What You Pay For It

Discussion in 'Local Chicken Laws & Ordinances' started by BigPeep, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. rancher hicks

    rancher hicks Crowing

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    Quote:"Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it"

    Your right and your "legal advice" is? Oh yeah free. Folks just do your research on whether your legal or not before you get chickens.
     
  2. Dora'smom

    Dora'smom Songster

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    I'm not sure I'd be happy having to pay $50 per year to have six hens. That is very limiting for those of us who want to have more, or add a few in a year or two to cover loss of eggs from the older hens.
     
  3. Traffa

    Traffa In the Brooder

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    Quote:Looks like a major topic alright.

    Just a story from Oz. Emu breeding was all the rage 10-15 years ago. On a suburban street corner in Perth a Council Ranger spied half a dozen emus in someone's backyard. Knocks on the door...."Sir....you can't keep emus here." The bloke replied...."Show me where it says I can't?" The Ranger couldn't....he kept them.
     
  4. HHandbasket

    HHandbasket The Chickeneer

    Dorasmom, I understand your point, but here's how I am seeing it:

    I think we have to start somewhere, especially in big metropolitan areas like where I live. Perhaps $50 a year may SEEM steep, but think of the alternative--getting caught with chickens, having to pay huge fines, go to court, lose your birds, have to get rid of your coop and all your equipment, possibly hiring an attorney to defend your position, etc., and how much all THAT would cost. To me, $50 a year seems pretty small in comparison, and if it means limiting my birds to half a dozen mature laying hens, I see 6 birds as being WAY better than 0. And I see legal as being WAY better than illegal.

    But that's just me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  5. Traffa

    Traffa In the Brooder

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    Quote:Personally, I don't think registration is necessary. In Western Australia, especially in Perth (pop. ca 1mill), the various local councils/shires have rules about how much poultry you can keep. You know, this council says only 6 hens, another 12. The most popular animals people have to register here that I can think of......apart from bees and sheep.....are dogs. About AUD$25 per year. We have poultry clubs and the members are usually well aware of what they can and can't keep in any particular area. Maybe get in contact with a local poultry club and ask them?

    If someone gets "caught" here, it's a visit from the local shire ranger and a request to remove. If I abide by this....that's the end of the story. No court, lawyers etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  6. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Quote:Personally, I don't think registration is necessary. In Western Australia, especially in Perth (pop. ca 1mill), the various local councils/shires have rules about how much poultry you can keep. You know, this council says only 6 hens, another 12. The most popular animals people have to register here that I can think of......apart from bees and sheep.....are dogs. About AUD$25 per year. We have poultry clubs and the members are usually well aware of what they can and can't keep in any particular area. Maybe get in contact with a local poultry club and ask them?

    If someone gets "caught" here, it's a visit from the local shire ranger and a request to remove. If I abide by this....that's the end of the story. No court, lawyers etc.

    I agree that registration is inappropriate. The primary concern is that the birds not be a nuisance. A secondary concern is that they be kept in humane conditions. Almost always other laws regulate both of these concerns. If one is wanting to get ordinances or zoning changed to allow poultry (or for that matter anything else), you need to approach the city council with information showing how all reasonable concerns are already addressed in current ordinances.

    Registration requires extra work for city officials, and really is fairly impractical. Someone who will ignore the law and have more birds than allowed (to include having birds when they know it is not allowed) is unlikely to register them anyways.
     
  7. HHandbasket

    HHandbasket The Chickeneer

    Dang, I'm moving to Australia! LOL!

    Personally, I think we should be allowed to have what we want in our yards... but we're not, and that's that. I live in the county that houses California's state capital, and we have been hurt SO severely by California's budget woes that they are considering cutting down sheriff patrols to 6 for the entire county per shift (did I tell you we have about 2 million people in this county, one of the top 10 cities in the U.S. for murder AND gang violence, and our county may be forced to cut it down to 6 patrol cars??), and our sheriff department may also be forced to eliminate SWAT response teams and their crime investigation units. We have to get money from somewhere... people want the right to have backyard chickens, but many aren't willing to "give" in order to "get" what they want. They like to bellyache and complain about the $$$ not being there for public services. Our county's animal shelter is closing June 30th, and after that, if your animal is found on the street, it's a quick trip to the gas chamber. No place to house/shelter them--our county is THAT broke!

    Chicken permits and other programs in the city would help bring in revenue and save jobs. They impose very steep fines here if you have chickens, though thousands of families in our area are keeping them anyway--they simply do not have the animal control officers to enforce the laws. And still, no one will probably enforce it, but I think people WANT to be legal and are willing to do something to make it happen in the end and pay the city for permits.

    I agree with you, I don't think people should HAVE to pay for permits, either. I think we should be free to go about our lives and have our animals as long as they don't disturb our neighbors. But the reality is, that's not the way it is where I live. I'm wanting to legally keep my birds... I'm willing to GIVE something in exchange for what I WANT, and it's a double bonus that doing so puts money back into my community's public safety funds.

    Sometimes paying for chicken permits has to do with more than JUST the chickens. That's just where I'm coming from, but everyone's priorities are different where they live, based on what is happening in their community. Or maybe some people aren't all into their community and stuff like I am. I guess it's a matter of individual priorities and what's important to each of us in our respective situations.

    I still say I'd pay for the permit... wouldn't like it, just like I don't like paying the annual fee for my dog's license/tags, but I do it anyway because it's the right thing to do & the public benefits from it.

    Win/win.
     
  8. HHandbasket

    HHandbasket The Chickeneer

    Dora'smom :

    I'm not sure I'd be happy having to pay $50 per year to have six hens. That is very limiting for those of us who want to have more, or add a few in a year or two to cover loss of eggs from the older hens.

    I think 6 birds legally is less limiting that 0 birds legally, but my math could be off.

    I agree about wanting to expand the flock. I have 5, but I think with my space, I could provide a healthy environment for as many as 10 or 12 birds and would LOVE to do so! We're just talking about a starting point.

    I'm not going to keep defending my position on it, though. I'm willing to give something in exchange for what I want, willing to put $$$ into the public coffers, and would rather have a small legal flock than a big illegal one.

    Everyone has different priorities.​
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  9. Traffa

    Traffa In the Brooder

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    Quote:LOL. We're generally as easy-going lot....if there is a way of resolving a dispute where neither party really gets burnt badly.......I mean, in the case below, that person could have been up for big bucks if his dog injured someone badly. The rangers did him a favour.

    Dogs can be quite dangerous to the unwary......rangers in Perth local government councils give people a warning first eg. must be in a fenced yard when off the leash. One of my brothers is intellectually disabled, got bitten by one. Didn't tell us, I noticed the wound on his leg one day. Rangers got involved, the person complied, end of story. Now, if it happened again, the fines start kicking in and the rangers spend more time driving by. Rangers here do a lot of vermin and animal control, operate Dog Pounds etc and investigate neighbour disputes that involve local bylaws.

    I think that one of the problems you would have there with "Chicken Registration" is that the fee would not cover the administration work required and thus your County would be even further behind, Budget wise. Maybe that's one of the reasons they don't do it. And yes, we have other by-laws etc that will cover...eg. Health regulations. For most, this shouldn't be an issue considering the excellent level of hygiene spoken about on these forums. In urban areas it's the flies that are the problem, I set fly traps during the blowfly season and clean the coops more often.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  10. Lizzy1353

    Lizzy1353 Hatching

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    Well I checked my local ordinance and called the building inspector and city hall to get permission for my chickens but still got tangled up in a mess. Seems the ordinance has multiple interpretations. So now my girls are in danger of having to find a new home and the local town officials are battling out whether to approve a chicken specific ordinance. Since I live in the middle of rural Wisconsin I find it comical that there is such controversy here. Especially given there is a large sheep farm next to one of the grade schools here and we live surrounded by Amish coming through town all the time. Yet even with all our agricultural roots, and the new sustainable comittee in town I fear ignorance will be the ordinances downfall. Some of the backlashing in the paper has been truely unreal. It was even suggested that chickens attack people. This on the eve that an 8 year old in town got mauled by a rottweiller in town so bad she ended up in the icu. I'll take my chickens against that anyway. Safer and better for you. I'm on the cover of the local paper. Apparently the hottest topic in town. Go figure. Marshfieldnewshereald.com. Keep your fingers crossed.
     

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