Health insurance rant.

[Three Cedars Silkies]

Quote:
Yes, I suppose our taxes are higher than those in the US, but I wouldn't be surprised if the extra we pay in taxes would still work out to be much less than the average person in the US pays in healthcare costs.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about the Canadian healthcare system and how it works.

Again, for everyday things like you mentioned, it probably works out great. Cancer patients...and there are a LOT of them...don't have the luxury of having the patience to have a CT scan done in 2 months...not 2 hours. Once a patient has a diagnosis of terminal cancer, they are no longer considered emergent and care for them comes very slowly. These are the folks that I'm speaking of.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
I personally STRONGLY disagree. It is easy to speak of "freedom" with UNION benefits. Health, dental and eyeglasses........
......Eyeglasses insurance...

Many Americans risk financial ruin if they have a health problem! People on this thread have had to skip or delay getting a needed surgery because of cost and lack of coverage! Worried about loosing choices.??????...

Even in most socialized health care systems you still have "choices" you can choose to buy private insurance and go to a private clinic for what ever you want. Heck even if you want a full body MRI once a week! (It is just that the taxpayers will not be picking up the tab.)

ON

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Maybe we get to many CT scans.!! Really a CT clininc practically on every street corner in Florida. Why is it that Canadians, Europeans, Australians and Japanese all have LONGER lifespans than in the USA? When in all those countries people "supposedly" can not get a CT scan in two hours?

Really what is health care about? How many people not having coverage are we willing to accept, so the elite can get a CT while shopping at the mall?
ON

 

[BlackBart]

Quote:
Yes, I suppose our taxes are higher than those in the US, but I wouldn't be surprised if the extra we pay in taxes would still work out to be much less than the average person in the US pays in healthcare costs.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about the Canadian health-care system and how it works.

Again, for everyday things like you mentioned, it probably works out great. Cancer patients...and there are a LOT of them...don't have the luxury of having the patience to have a CT scan done in 2 months...not 2 hours. Once a patient has a diagnosis of terminal cancer, they are no longer considered emergent and care for them comes very slowly. These are the folks that I'm speaking of.

I don't know where all this mis-information comes from but I know of several people (personally) who have had excellent immediate health services when Cancer or any major illness has been found. It is a Triage system.
My friend found a lump in her breast and within a week a biopsy and tumor removal had been done. Follow up treatments in the Cancer clinic and home support was all free. The medicine was free. The car service to the cancer clinic was free.

We have the right to a second opinion, nothing is forced on us without choice. As the OP said impatient people and those with money jump the Que.
If you have the money you can go anywhere for treatment.
Even people who choose not to pay or register (for whatever bizarre reason) in the health care system are treated free. Nobody is turned away.

Another friend was diagnosed with terminal breast cancer. She was given her choice of home support or palliative care. All free.
The palliative care suite was beautiful and three patients to one Nurse. But she wasn't ready to curl up and die.
She went to the States, they told her she was terminal as well. She went to Mexico, what did she have to loose? they treated her and she lived another four years.

Many of us do remember when Canada didn't have a health care system. The bill for your health services was left on your hospital bedside table or directly mailed to you. If you didn't pay they would garnish your wages. How can you heal properly with that amount of stress hanging over your head?
Sure allot of people do complain but if asked do they want to go back to the way it was or adapt the US system? no way.
Many people have taken the health care system for granted and to some extent abuse it. Its free after all.

Call it socialized medicine, call it whatever you like but if I need a operation I know I will not have to second guess, be turned away from a hospital, sell my house or be financially ruined to have it.
I can't imagine the burden on those people who would have to make that decision. It would be heartbreaking.

 

[Crusty McPottydoodle]

Quote:
Yes, I suppose our taxes are higher than those in the US, but I wouldn't be surprised if the extra we pay in taxes would still work out to be much less than the average person in the US pays in healthcare costs.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about the Canadian healthcare system and how it works.

Again, for everyday things like you mentioned, it probably works out great. Cancer patients...and there are a LOT of them...don't have the luxury of having the patience to have a CT scan done in 2 months...not 2 hours. Once a patient has a diagnosis of terminal cancer, they are no longer considered emergent and care for them comes very slowly. These are the folks that I'm speaking of.

Oldtimegator, you have mistakenly attributed my words to Quillgirl. If you look at my post, you will see that everthing you have quoted was written by me. Please fix. Here is the link to my post - the text to which I refer is at the bottom

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=4424113#p4424113

And again for the record, Cancer patients get what they need when they need it including CT scans. Those with non life threatening conditions wait.

 

[Quillgirl]

I'm not the person who wrote the "jump the que" line...

I'm not bashing Canada's system. Most of her citizens are happy with it, but most Americans would be horrified with the tax rate required to pay for it. We have a bigger aversion to raising taxes than nearly anything else.

And when medical providers and institutions are owned/hired/paid for by the government, it is nationalized medicine. It doesn't matter how it is delivered or that there is a patient contribution involved-- when those who deliver the care are basically government employees, it is a government program. We have government healthcare on a local level in the form of county health clinics that offer low cost or free primary care to children and pregnant women. Those who have used this... how was your experience at a government run facility versus a private physician's office? Medicare and Medicaid provide government funded health care for seniors and the poor. Some people fall through the cracks and that absolutely needs to be addressed in some way. (My mother runs a free full service clinic for those in our county whose income is above the poverty level, but still cannot afford healthcare and have no insurance. I write the grants that get private funds for the clinic. Our local hospital donates radiology, pathology, and supplies. Local healthcare providers--nurses, doctors, techs, educators-- donate their time.)

Some Americans may want to go to Canada for cost effectiveness, but when it comes to cutting edge research, advanced treatments, training, or being able to "jump the que," most of the world comes here. One of the benefits of medicine as business (meaning for profit) is that it inspires innovation and efficiency. It can also inspire corruption. There is and should always be government oversight to prevent this (as much as possible.) That's why you must be a careful consumer, look over your bill, ask questions, turn in those who commit fraud. Just as in other businesses, don't do business with crooks or incompetents.

Despite the heartbreaking stories that run and run MOST Americans have decent healthcare, good access, and are not unhappy with the system. (You can look up the stats yourself.) But there is that small segment for whom our system does not work, and that's where most of the stories emerge. No one wants to talk to the folks who are satisfied... what's interesting or controversial about that? Finding a way to address those who are caught in the gap, without destroying what works for the majority of us, is the issue.

 

[Three Cedars Silkies]

Quote:
This X 10000

 

[LovinMyPeeps]

Quote:
Again, for everyday things like you mentioned, it probably works out great. Cancer patients...and there are a LOT of them...don't have the luxury of having the patience to have a CT scan done in 2 months...not 2 hours. Once a patient has a diagnosis of terminal cancer, they are no longer considered emergent and care for them comes very slowly. These are the folks that I'm speaking of.

I don't know where all this mis-information comes from but I know of several people (personally) who have had excellent immediate health services when Cancer or any major illness has been found. It is a Triage system.
My friend found a lump in her breast and within a week a biopsy and tumor removal had been done. Follow up treatments in the Cancer clinic and home support was all free. The medicine was free. The car service to the cancer clinic was free.

We have the right to a second opinion, nothing is forced on us without choice. As the OP said impatient people and those with money jump the Que.
If you have the money you can go anywhere for treatment.
Even people who choose not to pay or register (for whatever bizarre reason) in the health care system are treated free. Nobody is turned away.

Another friend was diagnosed with terminal breast cancer. She was given her choice of home support or palliative care. All free.
The palliative care suite was beautiful and three patients to one Nurse. But she wasn't ready to curl up and die.
She went to the States, they told her she was terminal as well. She went to Mexico, what did she have to loose? they treated her and she lived another four years.

Many of us do remember when Canada didn't have a health care system. The bill for your health services was left on your hospital bedside table or directly mailed to you. If you didn't pay they would garnish your wages. How can you heal properly with that amount of stress hanging over your head?
Sure allot of people do complain but if asked do they want to go back to the way it was or adapt the US system? no way.
Many people have taken the health care system for granted and to some extent abuse it. Its free after all.

Call it socialized medicine, call it whatever you like but if I need a operation I know I will not have to second guess, be turned away from a hospital, sell my house or be financially ruined to have it.
I can't imagine the burden on those people who would have to make that decision. It would be heartbreaking.

I am fortunate enough to live right on the Canadian border and have many many friends and family on both sides. To call Canada's healthcare system "socialized healthcare" is a mis-nomer. It is "nationalized healthcare" and yes there is a huge difference. In a nationalized healthcare system the country pays your medical bills. This, in my humble opinion, is fabulous. They set the rates that hospitals, doctors, and other providers can receive for their services. It also helps control the skyrocketting costs associated with malpractice suits where people are receiving millions of dollars. Most MD's and nurses can barely afford the insurance they are supposed to cover, nationalized healthcare helps solve those challenges.

Before you throw stones at that style of healthcare lets take a look at our own welfare system. I may be making friends and infuencing people with this, but a total reform of the medicaid and welfare system would be a great jumping off point for extra finances to be able to assist hard working people that require help due to injury or illness. As a nurse I deal with medicare and medicaid on a daily basis. I am forced to make little old ladies that require respiratory assist devices like cpap and bipap who often need them due to diseases like congestive heart to "prove" they are using the machines atleast 4 hours a night, but medicaid buys them out right. OUTRIGHT. With no indication of whether or not their even used. I have set up equipment for people that bragged how the county was buying them an "inexpensive car" and paying their rent, and buying their food, because they couldn't "possibly work because they have fibromyalgia".

Let me tell you about Fibromyalgia, and Lupus, and Rheumatoid arthritis, and the pain I have EVERYDAY to get out of bed to go to work. I hold myself accountable... I have pride... A HUGE part of the problem in this country is we are willing to pay for our healthcare, and heaven forbid we if we work because then we "make too much money" to get help from the government we all pay taxes to.

We have a joke at work about how were all doing this "the wrong way" and ought to just quit our jobs, pay 50 cents for scripts and drink beer. Whatever happened to accountability??? Society has made this monster, but sadly, it's the people much like those on this board, the hard working people, trying to do right by themselves and their families that inevitably will continue to foot the bill to the rich and their pocketbooks and the wellfare rats that "don't have ta" because we continue to enable their behaviors... Maybe more people need to stand up and be heard...

edited for spelling.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
I don't know Canada's tax system. But I would be interested in ACTUALLY comparing, prior to making the assumption our taxes would go up. Remember the per capita cost of health care in Canada is $3,985 compared to our $7,290. To me it seems if the USA adopted a system like Canada's we would be saving money. Sure we may have a new "tax" but a bigger paycheck with less withholdings to cover it..

Having worked for a Finnish company for many years and having spent lots of time in Finland. I always assumed their taxes and costs were so much higher than ours. But when my Finnish friend and I looked at all the costs (Including healthcare and education the picture was quite different!

I used to think like those of you opposed to change. Until I ventured out on my own as a struggling self employed entrepreneur that has mildly dilated aortic root and mildly high blood pressure without meds.... Ya right find insurance without going to the state program...

Oh....LovinMyPeeps
(Well said!

)

ON

 

[MoSo]

Quote:
What's "most"? 50%? 60%? 70%? 80%? No clear answers there, just a bunch of contradicting statistics from both sides. Many people are not displeased with their insurance (which is not the same thing as being happy) right up until they switch jobs or someone in their family is diagnosed with a catastrophic illness or their company cuts benefits and they're own their own. Saying the current system "works" is frankly ludicrous. We have a health system that relies on insurance which pays for illness not wellness, which pays for intervention medicine with no incentive at all for keeping problems from developing.