Health insurance rant.

[Quillgirl]

It seems one of the largest differences between the US and Canada's tax systems is the national "Goods and Services" tax of 5% on most every purchase anyone makes. (Except for food or essentials, and there are rebates for lowest income earners.) This is on top of the national Canadian income tax, which is somewhat comparable to the US rates at the lowest income levels, but more heavily taxes income as you move into middle and higher brackets as compared to the US income tax rate. Each province also has it's own sales tax on top of the GST, so you might end up with an effective sales tax of 13-15% on most things purchased.

Interesting that the "Fair Tax"plan proposed by some in the US sounds a lot like the Goods and Services tax program Canada uses, except the Fair Tax would totally eliminate the earned income tax and have a larger tax imposed on purchases. I've heard it would be around 17-20% sales tax. (But no income taxes anymore.) Those who buy more would end up paying more-- and there would be rebates and allowances for lower wage earners, similar to Canada's.

I agree that nationalized medicine is different from socialized medicine. I'm not sure we've been talking about socialized medicine, or maybe I missed that posting.

 

[Quillgirl]

We have a health system that relies on insurance which pays for illness not wellness, which pays for intervention medicine with no incentive at all for keeping problems from developing.

I think we are going in circles now because this is a fundamental difference spoken of earlier. You health, when well, should not be covered by insurance IN MY OPINION. Each person and family should maintain their own general health and wellness without having an insurance company pay for it. Each person is responsible for keeping themselves healthy and doing the right things. It should be out of pocket, a part of the family budget. No different from taking the car for oil changes, tune ups, etc. Your auto insurance doesn't pay for that. Insurance is for the big things that could wipe out your bank account, not the piddling things.

No argument that there are situations in which people fall through the cracks or are without insurance in terrible circumstances. These are the cases that we should focus on fixing--fix those holes. There should be a bigger/better health safety net, but creating that safety net should not require that every person's medical choices and insurances be affected.​

 

[Organics North]

Quillgirl,
You seem to be knowledgeable on this subject from your side of the debate.
1. Agreed the biggest and most immediate problem are those that are not poor enough to be on a state or federal program, but are not wealthy enough to have coverage or can not find coverage.
2. Agreed that regardless of the system a mind set change must occur and people should be willing to pay for their own basic wellness or non essential services not using insurance as a broker for care.
3. If everything is so OK with the system, what about the statistics that put USA costs of heath care compared to ALL other first world nations right off the charts??? Absolute nothing to show for it other than being able to grab a CT scan while at the mall. (Keeping in mind that the vast majority of our advancements come out of University hospitals, not private practice.) I contend the USA system is very broken, with very high costs and inconsistent coverage for the citizens.
4. I do not know enough about Canadian taxes. Is higher education included in that higher tax rate like in most European countries? If so our costs of actually buying our own heath insurance and even putting 1 or 2 kids through 4 years of collage really offsets that increase. (Plus you have a healthy population that lives longer and is better educated to boot which equals a stronger and more competitive nation..

)

ON

 

[booker81]

Simple and honest question for Canadians - is there anything done or "restricted" with pre-existing conditions like here in America? I've thus far been lucky and only worked for companies that offer insurance that is not restricted by "pre-existing condtions". Thankfully as well, the amounts paid for coverage are set by the employer, and not based on health/age/etc.

If they were, I'd be SCREWED. Being healthy is fabulous, if you don't have genes that hate you. I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, and while I'm fairly fit, I don't have general yearly checkups because I see the doctor enough, and usually hit the ER a couple times a year. I'm slated for another reconstructive knee surgery in July to see if they can get some stability in my knee since it has a tendency to fold the wrong way, and my kneecaps come out with a touch. This will be the second surgery on that knee, my 4th orthopedic surgery (all open, no scopes), plus I've had two abdominal surgeries (including an appendectomy when I was 6 months pregnant). I have a mild heart problem, most all of my joints dislocate, my bloodpressure can't regulate itself, yada yada. I'm 29. I can't even start to add up what I've paid out of pocket even with "good" insurance (usually average $5000/yr out of pocket - yes I max my HSA!). My father makes me look like the picture of health - but his ailments are due to medical malpractice

I'd be curious how the numbers run for our income - matching up what I pay in taxes, out of pocket/HSA, and for coverage, vs what I would pay under a Canadian system.

Heck, I don't know what to think.

 

[malignstar]

I've solved my issue by not having health insurance at all. LOL! I figure for the price of an individual plan each month, as my work does not offer insurance, I might as well save that money and go to the Walgreen's clinic and pay $80 when I need to. Dentist will only see me once a year and I don't get physicals at my doctor anyway so that's not a big loss.

 

[Quillgirl]

3. If everything is so OK with the system, what about the statistics that put USA costs of heath care compared to ALL other first world nations right off the charts??? Absolute nothing to show for it other than being able to grab a CT scan while at the mall.

Everything is not OK. It works for most people but not all. And because it is health and life, those for whom it does not work are in dire straights.

The cost to cover legal risk is a huge factor. Not only in terms of how much it costs to insure medical providers for malpractice so that they can work, but there is a massive cost to patients and medical insurers because of defensive medicine. Physicians are afraid (rightly) that if they do not consider many possibilities, no matter how remote, and run tests to rule these things out, they will be sued for missing something. Even if the something they miss is nothing the patient came in complaining about. Patients routinely fail to tell physicians everything about their medical history or personal habits because they are embarrassed or don't think it's important or forget. This creates a quagmire and conundrum. A physician is expected to keep costs low and not order too many tests, yet can be successfully sued if he "misses" something completely different from the patient's original complaint. He can lose his ability to work because a single suit (whether it has merit or not) can make him/her "uninsurable." Without insurance, a doctor cannot get hospital privileges.

Certain specialties have more risk than others (OBs, surgeons, ER docs, etc.) The high cost and high risk push many doctors into early retirement, or they cut out the riskiest part of their practice. OB's stop delivering babies and only do GYN. Smaller hospitals no longer have reliable surgical coverage, and many have no neurosurgical coverage. Neuro guys are far and few between these days. It takes a very long time to get that training (2 years longer than most internships) and the cost for the education is staggering-- imagine coming out of school with $500K in student loans. On top of it, malpractice insurance is close to $100K per year because the risk of being sued is very high. Not all outcomes are good when the brain and spine are being tinkered with. Everyone wants a perfect outcome, but that's not always possible.

I believe the best answer is meaningful Tort Reform. If someone's got a better idea, I'd love to hear it. Unfortunately, the current national healthcare plan does not address tort reform. Physicians are held even more accountable for costs, yet can still be sued with impunity for missing something because they didn't order a test. Yet by ordering the test, they risk be reprimanded and fined. Nonsensical. There is a direct correlation between cost of health care and our legal system.

In our state, until the "good samaritan" laws went into effect, a medical provider who offered help on the side of the road or an airport, etc, could be sued for not providing the right care. Huh? The atmosphere is antagonistic toward providers.​

 

[BlackBart]

I agree that nationalized medicine is different from socialized medicine. I'm not sure we've been talking about socialized medicine, or maybe I missed that posting.

No you didn't miss anything but it has been mentioned on here before, on other threads, by several other posters that they felt Canada's health care system was sub- standard because it is socialized medicine.

Simple and honest question for Canadians - is there anything done or "restricted" with pre-existing conditions like here in America?
No, because it is not run like a insurance company. There isn't any dividends to be lost.
My friend who went to Mexico for treatment wasn't denied anything by our Health-care system because she went out of country.
I think it cost her $6000 a week for treatment in Mexico, 5 weeks, $30,000 for four more years of life.

The only thing I have heard of what can be turned down is when a person wishes to keep getting another opinion. I am not talking about a second opinion but maybe a third and definately a forth etc.. Unless there is a very good reason.

Goods and Service Tax or as we call it the Gouge and Scrape Tax. It pays for some of the health system and so does the Government run Lotteries. The Lotteries, I think, is a good way to raise money for the health-care.

Everybody in every country complains about taxes. Some pay allot more, some pay allot less. I would prefer to pay less but I would rather have my tax money go to health care than some other things...............like the Olympics

I'm not the person who wrote the "jump the Que" line...

I know, a Canadian poster did.

 

[PineappleMama]

I hear you Quill, I just mentioned examples... but yeah the BOOM stuff that comes out of no where... just like car insurance... I mean, that's why they're called Accidents, not On-Purposes... those are covered... but your regular oil changes are your responsibility... Health Catastrophe Insurance would be great.

As to a government plan... well, if they want to make it where everyone is covered and allow those who want to buy private... well make it simple... if you go to the doc (that accepts) and can't pay they just send the bill to Uncle Sam. If you can pay, or have insurance then they do that. That would leave the choice in the citizen's hands, rather than turning citizens into criminals. That part really nags me. There are plenty of folks who're in a similar situation as us... insurance for us would cost 17%+ of our income... and we already live check to check. For us it is literally insurance (that remember gets you nothing until you shell out your $10k deposit) or food. Shouldn't be a crime to feed your kids.

 

[Quillgirl]

Lotteries pay for higher education for kids who maintain a B avg or above in my state. I like that. It's an "optional" tax that has given a college education to thousands of GA students.

Pineapple, it should not be a crime to feed your kids. And there should be some sort of health care safety net for folks in your situation.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
I personally STRONGLY disagree. It is easy to speak of "freedom" with UNION benefits. Health, dental and eyeglasses........
......Eyeglasses insurance...

Many Americans risk financial ruin if they have a health problem! People on this thread have had to skip or delay getting a needed surgery because of cost and lack of coverage! Worried about loosing choices.??????...

Even in most socialized health care systems you still have "choices" you can choose to buy private insurance and go to a private clinic for what ever you want. Heck even if you want a full body MRI once a week! (It is just that the taxpayers will not be picking up the tab.)

ON

Laugh if you want...

Since when did being a hard working American become something to laugh at? When did WORKING for your benefits become a bad thing? Wow... scary times.. *shivers*
Yes, i do have eyeglass coverage benefits... and i intend to keep it too. My husband WORKS hard for those benefits..
I have no shame in that at all.
Now if i was a bum and didnt work and mooched off of the system..yeah.. then i'd be ashamed of my benefits...


I stand by what i said..i DO know people from Canada and they do NOT have the health care choices that we have here in the states. Period. I know..they have TOLD me what they really go through...
Health care is NOT just about emergency situations! And thats where Canada seems to have their problems... with general care and things that are non-emergency...
Anytime people have to leave their country and come HERE for their health care needs,.... well, it sends a BIG warning flag to me.
We are so screwed...