Help find what is wrong with pea suddenly watery white stool & not energetic.

[Yoda]

Did you know that some experienced breeders have incorrect dosing information on their websites and often I see people recommending those doses here? This is one of the reasons that I bought the books and figured out how to weigh and calculate doses.

-Kathy

your books do NOT give you the dose they give you a RANGE of dosage. You are not a Vet and you too are not giving the proper dose

 

[casportpony]

your books do NOT give you the dose they give you a RANGE of dosage. You are not a Vet and you too are not giving the proper dose

Chill... The dose advice I have given is way more correct than *some* of the stuff I've seen on websites and on BYC. It's up to people reading to take what I have posted and figure out what *they* think is correct by working with a vet and/or doing their own research. With this information I'm able to safely dose *very* small birds.

Put all the info from the books together and the what you see *is* a range. Take that, advice from a vet, other literature, what other people have been prescribed for the *same* illness and figure it out.

I just am tired of people saying that a large male gets the same amount medication as a small female, it just isn't true. A small female weighs ~3kg and a large male weighs ~6kg, right? If they're sick, they might weigh half that.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

FYI, I'm not a vet, neither are you, right? So why are you allowed to give doses, but give me grief for doing the same?

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

You said you give 1.5ml (300mg) Tylan 200, right? If someone has Tylan 50 and wants to do the *same* amount in mg's as you give, that amount would be 6ml, period.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

This is what the AAAP Avian Disease Manual says about treating blackhead (histomoniasis).

"There is currently no approved medication for treatment of histomoniasis in food animals. Small groups of birds not being raised for consumption can be effectively treated individually with metronidazole at a dose of 30 mg/kg orally SID for 5 days. Antihelmentic treatment may help suppress the population of cecal worms."

I've seen other posts where vets have prescribed this amount, a few in between and a couple that were 60mg/kg twice a day. Other books list a huge assortment of ranges. So given what I know and the success I've had in treating blackhead I can safely say that the minimum effective dose is 30mg/kg, but a dose as high as 60mg/kg twice a day have been used.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Here is more info:

-Kathy

 

[Tootsie]

Quote: I know Tylan is not for blackhead it was a separate question I meant how often would you treat as a preventative as in semi annually, quarterly or what?
Peatree is looking better more active, I will know better once I let him back out on Friday and see if he makes his normal rounds.

 

[casportpony]

Quote:

I know Tylan is not for blackhead it was a separate question I meant how often would you treat as a preventative as in semi annually, quarterly or what?
Peatree is looking better more active, I will know better once I let him back out on Friday and see if he makes his normal rounds.

Your best bet would be to have routine fecals done and to deworm at least twice a year, but that's no guarantee. I watch mine like a hawk and if one starts to look iffy I examine examine it's poop. If the poop is even slightly yellow I worm with Safeguard at 50mg/kg (.5ml per 2.2 pounds) and start metronidazole at ~60mg/kg once a day for five days. Depending on what the poop looks like, I might also start Baytril.

As for preventing it, you could try the Histostat-50, but I think that's meant to be fed daily and it is toxic to ducks, geese and dogs. Some people say you can use acidified copper sulfate as a preventative, but I don't know anything about it.

-Kathy

 

[Yoda]

FYI, I'm not a vet, neither are you, right? So why are you allowed to give doses, but give me grief for doing the same?

-Kathy

Do you want me to tell you why? Ok Blackhead mix 3 (fish zole) tablets to a gallon of water. You come on and say that is wrong you need to give no less then 30mg/kg and give it orally. Ok Doc, I have a 250 mg PILL so you are telling me to give it 30mg/kg so you tell me what I am suppose to do with a pill? You are telling everyone to give 3/4 teaspoon of corid when it's suppose to be 1 teaspoon per gallon. I told the person to give the adult peacock 1 metro tablet down the throat cause that is what I did. You told me now it is 60mg/kg and in post 10 of this thread you are giving your birds 1 tablet 2 times a day - isn't the overkill LOL I am not giving doses I tell them this is what I give mine and it works, you are quoting a book and giving them impossible ranges to go by. Like my vet said when in doubt go with experience. I was taught by my good friend Deerman who has been doing this for 40 plus years and how long have you been doing it? You state that your "Vet" told you to give this dose 30mg/kg but in another thread you state that "you have heard a number of vets give out this dose" of 60mg/kg but you do not give your vet's name - I gave you mine. Just because the book says Veterinary" on it doesn't make it the right thing to do. We are using off label drugs on our birds and using BAYTRIL - it has been banned in the USA in poultry so please my friend just because the dosage is under birds dosen't mean POULTRY it means caged birds like parrots, macaws, finches and so on BUT NOT poultry. You go to an import site and it states birds but if you go farther down it states poultry. This is most likely why my Vet stated to take the books with a grain of salt. It is AGAINST Veterinary Medicine to prescribe a dose of a drug off label, but yet your books give you the dosage range for it - why? She also stated that those dosages are taken from what they use on other animals and have not been tested on poultry, but you don't seem to care what a bird Vet has to say. I am going by experience when I say to give your bird a 1.5 shot of Tylan 200 but only ONE shot not one a day. I tell you to mix the metro in water for younger birds and give 1 pill to an adult. I do not tell people to chase the bird all around the pen til it is exhausted and then shove the meds down the throat. I do not tell them to use human medication on a bird, we here NEVER had to. For years everyone here has been telling each other the same advice that has been passed down from those before us. Then you come along and tell us everyone is wrong and you are right. I am here to tell you you are not. People brought the bird to the Vet and you question the Vet, in one post you said the Vet was wrong and I laughed. Everytime someone has a sick bird you tell them to catch the bird and give everything orally and I say not to because stress kills and you say for them to give it orally anyway. A sick bird is already stressed so it's immune system is weak by chasing the bird you make it weaker and then secondary infections have a greater chance of growing such as E Coli. here is part of the e coli study:
Management and sanitation practices designed to reduce the number of these types of organisms in the birds' environment are necessary. In addition, reducing stress factors and other disease agents can enhance the ability of birds to defend against harmful infections. Providing adequate ventilation, good litter and range conditions, properly cleaned and disinfected equipment and facilities and high quality feed and water will improve the disease resisting status of the birds. The poultryman must always avoid overcrowding, environmental stresses like chilling or overheating and avoid vaccination or handling stress during periods when the birds are already subjected to stressful conditions. Proper egg handling, good hatchery management and implementing a good sanitation program is necessary to reduce early exposure of chicks or poults to disease organisms. It is always emphasized that problems due to one of the more pathogenic strains may occur even under ideal conditions.
So basically what I suggest to the person I personally gave to my birds. I know how much to give my young ones and how much to give my older ones I do not have to weigh them cause the medication I use has a large safety zone. Tylan needs 40 times the dose to be toxic, Baytril needs 10 plus times the dose and Metro needs very high amounts. Not every bird has blackhead, the OP stated no yellow or bloody poop but then you came here and told her you see yellow tint and the bird has blackhead. Is there a cure for blackhead other then keep on giving your birds drugs, there should be, someone invested in sand and put it in the pen and it seemed to work for them. Worms I guess do not like it. If you have such an outbreak of blackhead why you selling your birds to others? You birds could be carrying it when you sold them. Did you tell them that? I thank my lucky stars that I had Deerman in my life. We talked on the phone, AOL IMing, email and here. All my questions were answered and then some. I wish he were still here cause he would teach you as well. He would most likely have the answer of how to remove blackhead from your property. I am not saying I am always right cause I am not. But I stand behind what I tell people cause it worked for me many many times. What you are offering has it worked for you or is it just out of the book? If you weighed your birds all the time then you should have an idea of how much a bird should weigh at a certain age and then know the proper dose correct? I want you to read this thread I helped someone after you helped them https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/473168/peafowl-and-guinea-fowl/10 If you want to talk just PM me and I will call you.

 

[Yoda]

You said you give 1.5ml (300mg) Tylan 200, right? If someone has Tylan 50 and wants to do the *same* amount in mg's as you give, that amount would be 6ml, period.

-Kathy

It depends on what else they are giving the bird. This person is giving VetRX so I would not give the bird 6ml I would stay with the 1.5 of the 50 so I would give the weaker dose and see how the bird is doing in a day or two and then give another dose if there was no improvement. I use the 50 for younger birds and the 200 for adults.