Hen - Limping and odd excrement

[Nola985]

My Henrietta has two different things presenting...
First, 2 weeks ago I notice she seemed to be favoring a leg. Inspected it - no cut, no bruising, no malformation, no bumblefoot signs. Over the last week, she seemed to have healed up from whatever and WAS walking fine.
Second, Wednesday we discovered an odd looking poop and zeroed in on Henrietta. I’ll post the poop below. That after Corid was started in all waterers.
This morning we discovered that she is limping and favoring the leg again. We examined it and it’s the same as before; no signs of anything causing pain. Also, I was excited yesterday to see her poop looked closer to normal but as of noon, her last void looked very similar to the previous days but without the red.
I am setting up her to be isolated now and I also used a syringe to ensure she is getting the Corid water. Looking for additional guidance, please.

 

[Nola985]

My Henrietta has two different things presenting...
First, 2 weeks ago I notice she seemed to be favoring a leg. Inspected it - no cut, no bruising, no malformation, no bumblefoot signs. Over the last week, she seemed to have healed up from whatever and WAS walking fine.
Second, Wednesday we discovered an odd looking poop and zeroed in on Henrietta. I’ll post the poop below. That after Corid was started in all waterers.
This morning we discovered that she is limping and favoring the leg again. We examined it and it’s the same as before; no signs of anything causing pain. Also, I was excited yesterday to see her poop looked closer to normal but as of noon, her last void looked very similar to the previous days but without the red.
I am setting up her to be isolated now and I also used a syringe to ensure she is getting the Corid water. Looking for additional guidance, please. View attachment 2446685

I went to the main post... here are the answers to the questions posed there.

1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.) SLW, 9 months, laying
2) What is the behavior, exactly. Not eating a lot, staying away from flock
3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms? SEE ABOVE POST
4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms? NO
5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma. NO
6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.NO
7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all. NOT SURE ABIUT DRINKING. NIT EATING NORMALLY. WONT EAT WORMS AND BARELY FEED.
8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc. PHOTO ABOVE
9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far? CORID WATER
10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet? START TREATMWNT. VET NIT AVAILABLE UNTIL POSSIBLY MONDAY
11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help. I CAN IF NEEDED
12) Describe the housing/bedding in use WEDNESAY - REMOVED PDZ, SANITIZED AND REPLACED WITH HAY IN COOP. SHE IS FREE RANGE DURING THE DAY

 

[tsperry88]

I had droppings like like that from my flock before treating with corid. Make sure you dose correctly. I have read a lot of bad info on dosing. The thread at the end seems like the best guide I have found. Make sure it's their only source of water. My sickest bird I brought into my house and kept in a small bathroom so the temperature would be warmer and I could keep a better eye on her.

As far as limping, I have 2 with a limp right now. One broke a toenail and one I havnt figured out. I generally have one with a limp and so far it corrects itself. It's either let them hurt themselves or take away their stuff to climb on. I let them hurt themselves.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/updated-corid-and-amprol-amprolium-dosing.818879/

 

[tsperry88]

You can also mix a concentrated dose and drip it on her beak so she swallows. Here is a quote from my thread when I was dealing with it.

'You can mix up 1.5 tsp of the powder in 2 tsp of water, and give her 0.1 ml per pound twice a day in addition to the Corid water."

 

[EggSighted4Life]

SLW, 9 months, laying

How high are your roost and what type of bedding? Can you feel any heat coming form the area?

If her age were younger.. I might suspect Marek's. It is possible that it's a Marek's flare up that she recovered from when younger??

Another possibility.. any intestinal necrosis.. cause by coccidiosis EARLIER in life (not likely but possible).. could cause an absorption problem EVEN when only given an adequate diet and not excess treats.

Please post a video of her if you can as it may show clues.

Not eating.. You NEED to check crop condition about her decrease in appetite and change in droppings.. coccidiosis is highly unlikely at her age! I would NOT treat with Corid.. but the opposite.. provide vitamins and probiotics to support her own immune system!

https://the-chicken-chick.com/chicken-anatomy-crop-impacted-crop-sour/


I would not isolate her unless she is being picked on or severely isolating herself.. and then kept in sight of the flock. Hope she recovers quickly!

 

[Nola985]

How high are your roost and what type of bedding? Can you feel any heat coming form the area?

If her age were younger.. I might suspect Marek's. It is possible that it's a Marek's flare up that she recovered from when younger??

Another possibility.. any intestinal necrosis.. cause by coccidiosis EARLIER in life (not likely but possible).. could cause an absorption problem EVEN when only given an adequate diet and not excess treats.

Please post a video of her if you can as it may show clues.

Not eating.. You NEED to check crop condition about her decrease in appetite and change in droppings.. coccidiosis is highly unlikely at her age! I would NOT treat with Corid.. but the opposite.. provide vitamins and probiotics to support her own immune system!

https://the-chicken-chick.com/chicken-anatomy-crop-impacted-crop-sour/


I would not isolate her unless she is being picked on or severely isolating herself.. and then kept in sight of the flock. Hope she recovers quickly!

I have a small flock of four. Their roost isn’t very high. Only about 2 foot and they land on a bed of thick PDZ usually. I changed it to hay when I read that coccidiosis may be the issue. No heat. Her body temp seems fine.

She stays near the rest of the girls but instead of scratching and such, she lays down. As they move, she moves with them but lays.


None of my girls have ever been sick.

I checked her crop after posting. It was empty and seemed fine. I made her a mash of wet oats and she had that today. She ate a few worms and some black sunflower seeds. Not much of her feed though.

Night comes early so she was in the coop with the others asleep by 5:15pm. So I will check her crop fist thing in the morning. I’m going check on her again in a bit to make sure it’s not too cold or damp. We live south of New Orleans so the weather here changes on a dime.

In regards to the leg...I tried to keep her in a large dog kennel so she would stay off her leg. When I let her out she would put weight for a small while them turn to favoring it again.

Below is a pic of her last dropping this evening.

 

[Nola985]

I had droppings like like that from my flock before treating with corid. Make sure you dose correctly. I have read a lot of bad info on dosing. The thread at the end seems like the best guide I have found. Make sure it's their only source of water. My sickest bird I brought into my house and kept in a small bathroom so the temperature would be warmer and I could keep a better eye on her.

As far as limping, I have 2 with a limp right now. One broke a toenail and one I havnt figured out. I generally have one with a limp and so far it corrects itself. It's either let them hurt themselves or take away their stuff to climb on. I let them hurt themselves.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/updateand-amprol-amprolium-dosing.818879/

I do have a lot of furniture that they love hopping up on. When they land it is on a wooden deck so I figure it would be easy to twist a foot.
I’m more concerned about the lack luster appetite and droppings.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I checked her crop after posting. It was empty and seemed fine. I made her a mash of wet oats and she had that today. She ate a few worms and some black sunflower seeds. Not much of her feed though.

Okay.. the thing is.. she won't starve to death but dehydration is deadly fast. Chickens' normal body temp is actually 104- 107. But I'm glad she isn't having issues maintaining her temp!

The lack of appetite could be relative A) to the amount of energy being used.. less movement requires less calories.. and bird eat to meet their energy need. B) STOP feeding treats.. IF she's hungry.. chicken food is the best choice.. to help her recover. YOU are POSSIBLY causing the weird droppings.. All urates pass in droppings causing the liquid. Oats have anti nutrients.. plus no added vitamins or minerals OR AMINO ACIDS that is in the chicken feed.. Why would she eat the less desirable normal stuff when yummies are available? Hi fat items provide more calorie content.. Cut out all treats.. get a weight on her

Is she still laying? Many ladies her age have decided to molt this year.. which often results in some slight withdrawal.. Are you feeling any pin feathers or any feathers missing that you can see which might indicate that?

IMO.. PDZ meant to dry things out is more likely to prevent coccidiosis than hay which allows the poo to sit on top and get mushed down and stays wet.. But again.. I don't see anything screaming coccidiosis.

Worms and BOSS are both very high fat.. calorie dense TREATS and not well rounded nutrition.. That dropping looks like she's taking in plenty of fluid and it isn't green with bile like a bird whose been without food and basically starving would be.

I would consider getting a fecal float.. to check YOUR internal parasite load (which includes coccidia count) and see if that has anything to do with it. The only ones that will EVER be seen in dropping are tape worms and large round worms species even then maybe only under heavy burden. All others will stay inside the intestines and only their microscopic oocysts (eggs) will pass. I don't personally JUST treat.. because, not all med treat all worms and I don't wish to treat what I don't have but need to ensure that if I do have something it gets treated CORRECTLY. So many things like wildlife load, soil type, weather pattern, stock density and more can effect internal and external parasite load. Getting them doesn't equal a bad keeper.. just one who faces natural issues.

Another reason I don't just treat is because despite seeing all the things folks claim are worms like yellow or frothy poo or muddy bumm.. my fecal floats don't agree.. and I haven't YET needed to treat my birds for worms.

Sometimes though.. perfect storms happen.. like molt weakening the system might allow something else to take foot hold... Just brainstorming and sharing things to consider.

If you are able to post any photo or video.. we might see some clues. And I think you correct to be at least on high alert for her if not concerned. Keep paying attention. But other than that, maybe just let her be.. If offering something.. a supplement like Poultry Nutri drench or Rooster Booster brand Poultry Cell (product) or Poultry Booster (product).

You roost height, really shouldn't be the issue.. but injuries can happen a number of ways.. even just stepping on a sharp rock that doesn't break the skin might bruise the bone under neath or ankle twisting like you said.

Hope we get some clues AND she recovers quickly!

ETA: a scrambled egg is often palatable and easy to digest plus loaded with nutrients.. but 34% protein and 64% fat should be used ONLY on occasion as a boost or treat.

 

[Nola985]

Okay.. the thing is.. she won't starve to death but dehydration is deadly fast. Chickens' normal body temp is actually 104- 107. But I'm glad she isn't having issues maintaining her temp!

The lack of appetite could be relative A) to the amount of energy being used.. less movement requires less calories.. and bird eat to meet their energy need. B) STOP feeding treats.. IF she's hungry.. chicken food is the best choice.. to help her recover. YOU are POSSIBLY causing the weird droppings.. All urates pass in droppings causing the liquid. Oats have anti nutrients.. plus no added vitamins or minerals OR AMINO ACIDS that is in the chicken feed.. Why would she eat the less desirable normal stuff when yummies are available? Hi fat items provide more calorie content.. Cut out all treats.. get a weight on her

Is she still laying? Many ladies her age have decided to molt this year.. which often results in some slight withdrawal.. Are you feeling any pin feathers or any feathers missing that you can see which might indicate that?

IMO.. PDZ meant to dry things out is more likely to prevent coccidiosis than hay which allows the poo to sit on top and get mushed down and stays wet.. But again.. I don't see anything screaming coccidiosis.

Worms and BOSS are both very high fat.. calorie dense TREATS and not well rounded nutrition.. That dropping looks like she's taking in plenty of fluid and it isn't green with bile like a bird whose been without food and basically starving would be.

I would consider getting a fecal float.. to check YOUR internal parasite load (which includes coccidia count) and see if that has anything to do with it. The only ones that will EVER be seen in dropping are tape worms and large round worms species even then maybe only under heavy burden. All others will stay inside the intestines and only their microscopic oocysts (eggs) will pass. I don't personally JUST treat.. because, not all med treat all worms and I don't wish to treat what I don't have but need to ensure that if I do have something it gets treated CORRECTLY. So many things like wildlife load, soil type, weather pattern, stock density and more can effect internal and external parasite load. Getting them doesn't equal a bad keeper.. just one who faces natural issues.

Another reason I don't just treat is because despite seeing all the things folks claim are worms like yellow or frothy poo or muddy bumm.. my fecal floats don't agree.. and I haven't YET needed to treat my birds for worms.

Sometimes though.. perfect storms happen.. like molt weakening the system might allow something else to take foot hold... Just brainstorming and sharing things to consider.

If you are able to post any photo or video.. we might see some clues. And I think you correct to be at least on high alert for her if not concerned. Keep paying attention. But other than that, maybe just let her be.. If offering something.. a supplement like Poultry Nutri drench or Rooster Booster brand Poultry Cell (product) or Poultry Booster (product).

You roost height, really shouldn't be the issue.. but injuries can happen a number of ways.. even just stepping on a sharp rock that doesn't break the skin might bruise the bone under neath or ankle twisting like you said.

Hope we get some clues AND she recovers quickly!

ETA: a scrambled egg is often palatable and easy to digest plus loaded with nutrients.. but 34% protein and 64% fat should be used ONLY on occasion as a boost or treat.

She is moving less due to the foot so I am figuring the lessening of food intake. I am here most of the day with the girls and spend a lot of time with them so small changes are easy for me to see. She isn’t molting although one of my Orpingtons is.

Their food is primarily Naturewise Organic Layer Feed. I only resorted to a small amount of oats (after suggestions) to see if she would take that and she only had it once yesterday. She did take her food later from me by hand. It just wasnt very much. I stopped Corid treatment today. In the morning, I will do as advised and get her some supplements. I’ll also see if there is any fecal testing available around here or in Nola

I am going back to PDZ once her leg seems healed. I just thought the landing would be softer while her leg is recovering. I prefer it’s cleanliness and I’ve never had an issue with parasites or such.

Her leg seems to be doing better today. She isn’t limping quite as much but still sits more than stands. I’m going get a video before it gets too dark out.

 

[Sally PB]

Glad to read there's some improvement. Sending positive waves and hugs!