Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[maryhysong]

Bumping this question because I think it got lost

(the question was about breeding from pullets) Now I am pretty new to breeding to the SOP and what not but here's my observation and from reading a LOT. Oldtimers recommended breeding from no less than hens going into their second laying year. Because their eggs are usually bigger than during their first year, but also because you should have a record of their production from the first year (this generally presumed you were trapnesting or at least keeping records by each pen of birds)

Also because at that age you will have weeded out a lot of birds over that time, those that were just not thrifty, if any got sick or egg bound or whatever....

That said I know a lot of people hatch from pullets, especially when just starting off with a breed; you want to get chicks on the ground soon as you can. I'll be hatching from pullets this spring because you never know what is going to happen to a bird. And I want more of them as quick as I can. Next year when I have hens and pullets I might wait and hatch from the pullets later.

I am waiting for the pullet eggs to get to a reasonable size tho, so the chicks aren't too small at hatch. I know they will probably catch up in a couple weeks to hen size chicks but haven't ever done a side by side comparison

 

[NanaKat]

Personally I wait a month after a hens first egg. To allow time for the egg to reach a good setting size for the breed. 

 
For just plain hatching success, 52G to 70G has the best hatch rate.
You are speaking of the size of the egg?

Yes! Pullet eggs have a lower hatch rate until they get to 52G for Large Fowl.

It is from one of those recent Poultry Experiments.

Question from a discussion last week about breeding hens instead of pullets.  At what stage does one consider a pullet breedable?  Do you go by size, age, length of laying or all three?

Bumping this question because I think it got lost

For just plain hatching success, 52G to 70G has the best hatch rate.

For Standards? When the pullet is old enough to know her good and bad points.

Thank you for your comments. That helped clarify for me. Since the Wyandotte pullets are now laying 58 - 62 gram eggs and old enough, I can continue with my breeding plans.

 

[hellbender]

Ummm not so sure that I'm with you guys on the whole liver thing. I had Pâté before and that's a French liver paste. Wasn't horrible but definitely not something I wanted more of.

Pate Is a bit more than fried livers. lol Have you ever had 'rooster fries'? I love'em!!!

Edited: With respect to hatching pullet eggs. Just because it's can be done, is not a green flag to do it or verification that it's a really good idea. IMHO, such practices can/could set a breeding program back a few steps before you get your best foot forward.

Edit #2: I really don't give a flying firetruck what anyone justifies themselves into doing but common sense should dictate our actions in real life.

 

[Fentress]

Sending PM with info shortly.

OOps. Could you please send me the titles too! Or just post it. Thanks. I just got a big cast iron dutch oven for Christmass, can't wait. I love cooking with iron.

 

[catdaddyfro]

(the question was about breeding from pullets) Now I am pretty new to breeding to the SOP and what not but here's my observation and from reading a LOT. Oldtimers recommended breeding from no less than hens going into their second laying year. Because their eggs are usually bigger than during their first year, but also because you should have a record of their production from the first year (this generally presumed you were trapnesting or at least keeping records by each pen of birds)

Also because at that age you will have weeded out a lot of birds over that time, those that were just not thrifty, if any got sick or egg bound or whatever....

That said I know a lot of people hatch from pullets, especially when just starting off with a breed; you want to get chicks on the ground soon as you can. I'll be hatching from pullets this spring because you never know what is going to happen to a bird. And I want more of them as quick as I can. Next year when I have hens and pullets I might wait and hatch from the pullets later.

I am waiting for the pullet eggs to get to a reasonable size tho, so the chicks aren't too small at hatch. I know they will probably catch up in a couple weeks to hen size chicks but haven't ever done a side by side comparison

Yes remember how Bob would comment on using those hens (usually 2+) that still looked like they did when they were pullets something to that I like the idea of it too.(doing some this year in my NH program) Now if you are trying to get the egg production numbers up in a strain then you have to hatch them very soon as they come into lay or to say the ones that mature the earliest. OR trapnest and keep records then hatch from those later but in this day an age(social and job related) trap nesting is not/can not be done effectively as not many folks are setting there all day long right on top of the ongoings at the farm like we used to do way back in the good ol days.

Jeff

 

[NanaKat]

Dear,
The turkeyhead malines is an old, typical belgian breed obtained long ago by crossing malines with heavy game breed named "Brugse Vechter" (Brugge fighter) in dutch. The illustration you posted is one of the official colors (golden cuckoo) but that color disappeared long time ago, some peoples are trying to recreate this color as well as other official colors (white, blue, silver cuckoo, black, ...), most of them being recognized colors from the "Brugse Vechter". I'm living in Belgium and I’m one of the few passionate who are still raising this old breed. They are slow growing (18 months to reach full maturity) and roosters can reach up to 6-7 kg (12-14 lbs). Hens are also very heavy 4.5 kg (9 lbs) and give few eggs (120-150/year). Quality of the meet is Exceptional, far the best meet you'll ever eat. To my knowledge, almost all the Mechelse Kalkoenkop available in belgium are originating from 2 or 3 lines, some peoples in the netherlands might also have different lines but I'm still trying to locate them.
If you want nice pictures, you can visit this website where you'll see the two belgian breeds I just talked about:
https://sites.google.com/site/neerhofvantspiegel/Home
This guy is the original owner of on the the two "lines" for the Mechelse Kalkoenkop (turkeyhead malines), to my knowledge, he doesn't sels hatching eggs.
Do not hesitate to contact me if you want more info about this breed.
Sincerely yours,
Nicolas from Belgium.

Thank you. The Belgian Malines (Black Barred) have been imported to the USA as of last year. There are several breeders in Canada...I believe the line came from the Netherlands. Yes, my favorite is the Golden Cuckoo Turkey headed breed...hopefully the breeders will be able to re-create the variety.

 

[s950714]

Dear,
You might know that the Belgian Malines was at the origin of the turkeyhead malines but that they are now considered as independant breeds, altough they are, of course, closely related.
Concercing the golden turkeyhead malines, I will start this year to try and recreate this color, using pure turkeyhead malines hen and and golden black brugge fighter rooster. I have the idea that this will be a matter of 10 to 12 years to get pure turkeyhead again, so it's a long lasting project and we'll see if this project will survive mr fox...
Happy breeding and happy new year
Nicolas

 

[NanaKat]

Yes remember how Bob would comment on using those hens (usually 2+) that still looked like they did when they were pullets something to that I like the idea of it too.(doing some this year in my NH program) Now if you are trying to get the egg production numbers up in a strain then you have to hatch them very soon as they come into lay or to say the ones that mature the earliest. OR trapnest and keep records then hatch from those later but in this day an age(social and job related) trap nesting is not/can not be done effectively as not many folks are setting there all day long right on top of the ongoings at the farm like we used to do way back in the good ol days.

Jeff

Thankfully, I'm "retired" to the farm/ranch and have the time to visit the pens on a regular schedule and note which hens are on the nest. That makes it easy to keep laying records.
I also record fertility of the cocks when I candle eggs.

The pullets I will use started laying in August, completed their last molt in November and are now laying again. Their eggs are firm shelled with no porous spots and nice sized. They have maintained an adult hen weight for the past two months. While 10 months of age, I'm choosing to breed them back to their sire in order to "get more chicks on the ground" increasing my breed flock from four Columbian Wyandotte hens to eight. I will also use an 11 month old cockerel back to his dam.
The pullets and cockerel are the result of selective culling from over 150 chicks hatched in 2013.

 

[3riverschick]

Ummm not so sure that I'm with you guys on the whole liver thing. I had Pâté
before and that's a French liver paste. Wasn't horrible but definitely not something I wanted more of.

Hummm.I agree. My grandfather was a grocer and during the Depression they always had plenty of the "nice" parts of the bird to eat.
We were raised on the meat only plus giblet gravy ( if you wanted it). It seems to me it was a cultural thing and he was happy to
afford his family such "extras". I hope this is coming out right because I am not disparaging anyone 's lifestyle or why/how they
choose to chicken parts other than just meat and giblets. It just was never a part of my upbringing and now, at 62, I am too old to change.
I do like the dark meat, tho, esp. the thigh.

. Which is fine with Hubby Bob who likes the white meat. Then I pick the rest of the
chicken for tidbits which we make into chicken salad or (rarely) soup. The rest gets boiled for the dogs. The "jelly" and fat solution goes into
the freezer until just set and I scrape of most all the fat and throw it way. The "jelly" gets bagged into plastic snack-size bags and frozen.
Gets used for dog meals to moisten their kibble.
Looking back at what I just wrote, it must seem to some, a waste of food. Funny how the things we do regionally must seem so different
to folk in other parts of the country. I have lived multiple times both East and West of the Mississippi. The cultures are so different in both
places. I think that's part of what makes America great. That we can have such regional differences and still come together, bound
together by beliefs in our Constitution and the Rights it guarantees .
Best,
Karen

 

[har]

Pate Is a bit more than fried livers.  lol  Have you ever had 'rooster fries'?  I love'em!!!  



[COLOR=FF0000]Edited:[/COLOR] With respect to hatching pullet eggs.  Just because it's can be done, is not a green flag to do it or verification that it's a really good idea.  IMHO, such practices can/could set a breeding program back a few steps before you get your best foot forward.

[COLOR=FF0000]Edit #2: [/COLOR]I really don't give a flying firetruck what anyone justifies themselves into doing but common sense should dictate our actions in real life.  

I am not real clear on why you feel this way. I think you feel that pullet eggs should not be used for hatching. Would like to elaborate on this subject. Thanks

Scott