Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by juststruttin, Oct 20, 2013.

  1. maryhysong

    maryhysong Chillin' With My Peeps

    Aug 24, 2012
    Claypool, Arizona
    Bob was so awesome about helping people find birds! I never met him in person but I sure miss his wisdom and input here on the threads.

    I'm full up now, won't be taking on anything new and will be thinning out a lot of birds later in the spring. I do have Buff Plymouth Rocks from Tom Roebuck lines along with Black Copper Marans and getting started with some SOP Buff Orps that sort of fell into my lap ;-) This is my first year with the all of them, breeding & hatching my own. Hopefully things will turn out well.
  2. colburg

    colburg Chillin' With My Peeps

    Sep 10, 2012
    Loving, NM
    I have a question about breeding pens.

    The place where I was planning on setting up breeding and chick(up to 4-weeks old if in winter) pens is in the back of a horse barn. It's 3-sided with the southern face open. Maybe 20ft of shade in front of the pens. No access to sunlight. (My wife brought this up, I had overlooked it).

    If we set eggs for 3-4 months, how will this affect breeding and laying? Other thoughts?

  3. Wynette

    Wynette Moderator Staff Member

    Sep 25, 2007
    Speaking of Bob, I'd like to share an e-mail I received from him in 2012. I was asking for feedback & his personal advice on my Silver Penciled Rock. I had searched in vain for another line to work alongside my own, a line that would offset the things that needed improvement in my line. Bob's reply was encouraging and helpful - in his e-mail, he refers to "Anthony" - I'm not sure who this person is, or why Bob mentioned him...does anyone happen to know him? I'm guessing he's also a breeder of Silver Penciled Rock, and I'd love to make contact if so:

    Hi Wynette: Dont give up you got very good colored birds. The size is 8.5 lbs the standard is one pound less. You are in the ball park for size. I like to have them one pound above standard weight. So if you have males that size then your females should be on the money. You can get them bigger it will take time. I got a email from Anthony a few minutes ago.

    I just came back from Matt Ulrich home about two hours ago and we talked about your worries. He has Black Austrolorps and they are on the small size. I am going to trade 18 of my white rock large fowl eggs to a guy in Washington State for 19 of his Black Austrolorpes eggs. They are suppose to be bigger birds. Then I am going to give them to Matt and see if they are really better than what he has. His birds are really true to type they are standard size. But today the judges want a bird three pounds over weight to win at show.

    If I had your birds. I would have the biggest hen you got as size and type is mostly by the hen mated to your biggest male with the best color as males are suppose to help more in color than shape.

    You have the best strain of Silver Penciled Rocks in the USA. Dont give up on them. If Dick liked them he knows. Also, they told me he was selling a dozen of Silver Penciled large fowl eggs at the show in Florida last Saturday. I thought of you right off the bat when Matt told me.

    So hold you head up high pray to the poultry gods your birds will come through this spring with some chicks and buy yourself some cod liver oil and put some on their feed for fertility. It will all work out.

    Why dont more people have this pretty breed. The prettier they are the harder they are to breed for color. Bob
  4. rodriguezpoultry

    rodriguezpoultry Langshan Lover

    Jan 4, 2009
    Claremore, OK
    You are always on a roll!

    Walking outside to a dead bird isn't really that big of a shock. Heart attacks, choking, deciding that sticking their head outside the fence when a random dog comes by... things happen.
  5. catdaddyfro

    catdaddyfro Overrun With Chickens

    Sep 16, 2009
    Vernon Parish
    Yes peachdawg78 Anthony Picceo he used to have Partridge Rocks he is in Pensacola he is raising Barred Rocks now sold his PR to a guy in Miss. and they have been swapped since then or in the works of moving on now.


    It was a size reference Bob was leading in to Anthony sold his because of the size issue I heard later on that they weren't too terribly bad in the size dept. I think it was one of those White rock versus all the rest size issues once more, unfortunately.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  6. Wynette

    Wynette Moderator Staff Member

    Sep 25, 2007
    Thanks very much, Jeff. I appreciate it. I've been going through all my correspondence with Bob, trying to identify all the folks he referred to - this is good to know, though it sounds like they may be gone to the wind by now. Sigh.
  7. Yellow House Farm

    Yellow House Farm Overrun With Chickens

    Jun 22, 2009
    Barrington, NH
    Isn't this the problem again and again. When one considers how few people there actually are raising standard-bred poultry and then, among those, how few make a strong commitment to specialization and the long-term, one really starts to understand why large fowl stocks are not what they used to be.

    The Standard is an imperative to good breeding. To know one's breed is to know one's standard. To know one's standard is to know one's breed, because that is what a breed is--its standard. To know one's line is a different thing, and that only comes with time, good record keeping, a strong memory, and a long-term commitment. Intuition comes into play when looking at one's current stock in relationship to the standard and, recognizing where it fails the standard, one intuits how one might best arrive at destination. Intuition, or hypothesizing, is very important, insofar as there may be many steps, or rather seasons, between one's current stock and standard excellence, and one uses standard-guided intuition to calculate the next step, which will then be born forward by more standard-guided intuition, until one arrives at goal.

    If one is managing to breed standard-bred fowl over a long period of time, i.e. not simply buying someone else's birds and breeding them for a few seasons, but if one is breeding standard-bred fowl and maintaining and strengthening those fowl, as recognized by the peer-review process we call shows, than it is because of standard-based exposure that is informing one's intuition vicariously through the intentional imagination of standard-quality stock that guides one's selections.

    If neither of these is the case, then one will eventually select away from proper shape, at which point one has left one's breed behind. Most beginners see color first and think that, if a bird is such and such a color, it is such and such a breed, but this is not so. Breed is defined by shape, so it meets that shape or it doesn't, and that shape is defined in the standard. One can raise really happy chickens that scratch and run around the yard and lay well and come for treats and are of a certain, if not specifically exact, color pattern, but that in and of itself is a hatchery bird. However, that bird is just a chicken. If, however, it possesses proper shape and, hopefully, weight, it is representative of the breed per the standard. If it has all of these things as well as a breed appropriate feather quality, its starting to look like a properly standard-bred bird.

    Know the standard, use intuition to help approximate that standard, bring birds to APA/ABA sanctioned events where there is strong competition in one's class and the necessary peer-review in order to hone one's personally held image of perfection. These steps will lead to masterful breeding that others will recognize instantly as such. There will be no need to plead one's case or make an argument. The birds will speak for themselves.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
    6 people like this.
  8. If you run your pens into your barn instead of along the back side of it, they should be able to get out into the sun if desired. Actually, I can't really understand why there is no sun in a south facing shed... unless you have evergreens blocking it... or horses using it too and can't run your fencing that direction? If they cannot receive direct sunlight, does the barn at least reflect sunlight so that its fairly well lit? Maybe you could post a pic to help us understand the exact situation a little better?

    If Anthony remembers who he sold them to and you could get their contact information, it would be worth trying to track them down.
  9. Bluetick340

    Bluetick340 Out Of The Brooder

    Dec 17, 2012
    Glad someone talked about breeding pens in the shade. Any body to experience with this issue.
  10. hellbender

    hellbender Overrun With Chickens

    Sep 2, 2013
    Grinder's Switch
    I do like to have fun. [​IMG] I have on average, 425 to more than 450 birds at any one time and these things don't happen to me. Most of my chickens die when I slaughter my capons or the useless cockerels and spent hens...

    Heat stroke, choking or heart attack. No. I guess most of my birds are very heat tolerant, and any stock with congenital health problems have been weeded out over these past decades and MY dogs take care of any other dogs or vermin that might threaten the flocks...I guess I'm blessed.

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