Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[BGMatt]

I've been following this thread with great interest; it raises a question for me.

I am, by all accounts, a "newbie" and do not even own chickens at this point. I'm spending a lot of time reading about housing, feeding, breeding, culling....basically all points of husbandry. I've been encouraged to start with the 'best stock' I can afford but I'm beginning to question if I will ultimately be granted access to the best stock I can afford........perhaps I'll be forced to settle with the best I can get versus what I can afford.

I do, absolutely, understand the desire to protect all the work and effort put into a strain and that it would be disheartening to watch birds leave and know they'll never be what they could/would be if kept in your care. I also wonder if there is some middle ground available to people who are taking the cautionary tales against hatchery stock to heart, what is suggested to folks wanting to avoid hatchery birds (that by seemingly ALL accounts neither look or act like standard birds) but are essentially denied access to anything better?

I'm not wanting to stir the pot or get in the line of fire but I really am wondering where an advisable starting point is because if all I'll haveaccess is hatchery stock I can save myself a heck of a lot of trouble and flip a coin to decide on a color as that's really all that differentiates them.

Cheers!
M

Best thing to do is attend some local shows and make some connections with real breeders and poultrymen instead of internet "superstars". The vast majority of breeders are eager to find enthusiastic newcomers to their breed, to share stock and knowledge. Especially with the long time breeders put yourself in their shoes, how many starry eyed folks have come up to them and wanted their best stock for pennies and visions of grandeur in their eyes, only to be out of poultry in 2-3 years?

Personal anecdote, but when I had to get rid of most of my stock a few years back, I placed them in what I thought were good situations, then last year when I was back in a position to breed birds again I called up those folks, not a single one had any of those breeds anymore, all but one were completely out of birds. Unlucky? Perhaps. Discouraging? Yes. Prevented from helping newcomers get started? No. Just a bit of perspective.

Another point to consider is how limited stock some folks may be. If they're culling down to the absolute best couple pair of birds to breed from, they aren't going to have a lot to sell. I'm a nobody in the poultry world, and even I have a wait list. Patience to work with the breed and breeder you want to work with is some of the best advice I can give.

Bottom line, get involved with local clubs and shows, you won't get denied access to stock. In extreme cases you might have to move to a second choice breed if something isn't available in your area.

Edit: For those still making breed choices, you really can't beat the Langshan as a backyard fowl. Great layers of big gorgeous eggs, big frames with plenty of tasty meat, and the eye candy above and beyond any other breed of poultry.

 

[maryhysong]

For folks on here wondering, and others might have additions, but when I think of dive in breeds that would fit a smaller operation, birds already in good condition who would benefit from more breeders, offering strong competition, I think of these:

Barred*, White*, Buff*, and Partridge** Rocks
Buff Orpingtons*
Black Australorps*
White*, SL*, and Columbian** Wyandottes
New Hampshires*
RC and SC RIR*
Light* and Dark** Brahmas
RC Anconas*
White*, Light* and Dark* Brown Leghorns
Black Minorcas*
Buff*, Black*, and Partridge** Cochins
Black Langshans*
Blue Andalusians** (if you're willing to color cull)
WFB Spanish** (everyone always talks about them as if they were made of porcelain, but there are actually some good one's out there)
Black Ameraucanas*
Dominiques*
Blk Sumatras*
Silver Spangled Hamburgs*
Speckled** and Light Sussex*
White** and Red Dorkings**
Buckeyes*
Salmon Faverolles*
WCB Polish*
Golden Campines**
White Chantecler(*)

~~There are two I would highlight, because I think population-wise, they're in a dangerous space: Speckled Sussex and Spangled Hamburgs. I'm really hoping that there's some strong rallying around these breeds before they descend to the "nothing but hatchery stock" status. I actually have the opportunity to begin with the Hamburgs, but I'm torn. They really need support, as an APA judge friend of mine recently put it, "Now there's a dying breed." There were none in competition at the Ohio National last season; that's a bit of a poultry tragedy right there. That Speckled Sussex be so low is another tragedy. They've been eclipsed by the Light Sussex imports, which though nice, don't have the US history that the Speckleds do, and unlike the Lights, they offer something unique to the poultry world.

I find it interesting that you listed the Black Ameraucana; The show I went to last fall in Tucson had a fair number of blacks and blues from a couple of breeders and a number of youth entries. I have some b/b/s chicks from one of the breeders and the oldest ones are looking pretty nice.

Also I have some of the Buff Rocks, a color never seen out here before. Had four chicks hatch last weekend and have another hatch due Tues. My last hatch for the season, it is getting too hot already

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I find it interesting that you listed the Black Ameraucana; The show I went to last fall in Tucson had a fair number of blacks and blues from a couple of breeders and a number of youth entries. I have some b/b/s chicks from one of the breeders and the oldest ones are looking pretty nice.

Also I have some of the Buff Rocks, a color never seen out here before. Had four chicks hatch last weekend and have another hatch due Tues. My last hatch for the season, it is getting too hot already

Those are two great breeds and two great varieties within the breeds. I know that some don't consider Ameraucanas heritage because of SOP entry date, but I think that that sort of reasoning is umbilical. You can't fix a date on "heritage"; time keeps flying and the 70's are becoming more and more vintage everyday.

For me, and I would actively promote that others adopt this same understanding, the term "heritage" is nothing more than another way of saying "standard-bred", and once a newcomer understands that, they are better off using the term "standard-bred".

 

[pigsflyacres]

The online Dorking people are the same. I could offer them support until my eyes crossed, but it would do no good. If I remember correctly, the Java club is one born of this sort of on-line community. I don't even look at the BYC Dorking Thread.

Please don't count me there! I do want to be part of the solution w/the Dorking Club, but its in more need of help than the breed its self and I have no idea where to start! I've been listening very carefully. To you and to Walt, and yes Craig too and I've been coming to some conclusions.

I tend to be outspoken. I'm not afraid of saying and doing what I believe. And on these forums sometimes I decide what I believe thru words. I think out loud if you will. I don't have experience as a breeder. But I know what it is to keep chickens. I know what it is to commit to a long term goal. I've been working on my long term goal in horses for 45 years! One might think I'd have gotten there by now, but really it takes more than one lifetime. There is a sort of philosophy towards life that you develop working with animals long term. Some people can work with livestock for years and never figure out the rhythm and others fall into it fairly easily.

I think that to move poultry forward 'we' have to understand the internet. Both pros and cons and really use it to push poultry keeping forward. That its not the color but the shape that makes a breed. It takes a community united in a goal to make that happen. You can't fight certain parts of the poultry craze. They trick is to get the few to listen and understand that there is more. And then get them good stock so that they can find their feet as a breeder.

And this thread is many things, but it should always come back to connecting people with good stock.

Jennifer

 

[gjensen]

Best thing to do is attend some local shows and make some connections with real breeders and poultrymen instead of internet "superstars". The vast majority of breeders are eager to find enthusiastic newcomers to their breed, to share stock and knowledge. Especially with the long time breeders put yourself in their shoes, how many starry eyed folks have come up to them and wanted their best stock for pennies and visions of grandeur in their eyes, only to be out of poultry in 2-3 years?

Personal anecdote, but when I had to get rid of most of my stock a few years back, I placed them in what I thought were good situations, then last year when I was back in a position to breed birds again I called up those folks, not a single one had any of those breeds anymore, all but one were completely out of birds. Unlucky? Perhaps. Discouraging? Yes. Prevented from helping newcomers get started? No. Just a bit of perspective.

Another point to consider is how limited stock some folks may be. If they're culling down to the absolute best couple pair of birds to breed from, they aren't going to have a lot to sell. I'm a nobody in the poultry world, and even I have a wait list. Patience to work with the breed and breeder you want to work with is some of the best advice I can give.

Bottom line, get involved with local clubs and shows, you won't get denied access to stock. In extreme cases you might have to move to a second choice breed if something isn't available in your area.

Edit: For those still making breed choices, you really can't beat the Langshan as a backyard fowl. Great layers of big gorgeous eggs, big frames with plenty of tasty meat, and the eye candy above and beyond any other breed of poultry.

LOL. Make sure you take the opportunity to promote your breed of choice.

They are good looking birds.

They are simply attractive and unique at the same time. We do not have anything else like them. A good looking flock ranging is something to look at.

Speaking of which. Did you notice that flock on the Minorca Facebook page? That was a good looking flock.

 

[gjensen]

You both sound like Bob! And I mean it!

I am a newbie just like most that are here.

There is no one like him, or sounds like him. He was in a place all of his own.

 

[gjensen]

Those are two great breeds and two great varieties within the breeds. I know that some don't consider Ameraucanas heritage because of SOP entry date, but I think that that sort of reasoning is umbilical. You can't fix a date on "heritage"; time keeps flying and the 70's are becoming more and more vintage everyday.

For me, and I would actively promote that others adopt this same understanding, the term "heritage" is nothing more than another way of saying "standard-bred", and once a newcomer understands that, they are better off using the term "standard-bred".

If it is in the Standard, it fits. It seams silly to exclude a few based on a date.

I was born in the seventies, so it seams old to me.

 

[3riverschick]

Ok and good places to get foundation quality Light Sussex! Listed in no particular order.
For APA standardbred birds you don't want any Aussie strain. They are too big and will DQ
on size penalty points alone. Choose CAN, US or UK lines. Or a cross to Aussie as long as
the proper size is met. I am sure there are more sources, these are just the ones I know.
I don't have any stock available. Maybe next year.



Walt Boese, Walt's Black Powder & Archery, Deer Lodge , MT ;
MT is now an NPIP State. Walt is a qualified NPIP instructor.
http://www.manta.com/mb_55_B63AD7N1_BW5/archery_supplies/deer_lodge_mt

Emily Robertson, TruNorth Heritage Hatchery , Vancouver, B.C., CAN;
http://truenorthfarm.ca/ no problem exporting to USA.

Sunset Meadows Farm, OH ;
http://sunsetmeadowfarm.com/ Look at the breed type on Hottie !!

Jan Childs ,Cornerstone Farm, Berryville, VA ( Has TruNorth last I heard) ;
http://www.cornerstonepoultry.com/

Colin at Fundy Poultry, New Brunswick, CAN;
https://fundypoultry.ca/ Emily at TruNorth is his mentor.

Waltz's Ark, CO,
http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/WALTZS.ARK.970-210-0883
Has US, CAN & Aussie lines, pure and crossed, all in separate pens.
Dr. of Naturopathy, everything raised naturally on high plains of CO.

The Campbell Farm, Dunnville, KY
http://www.thecampbellfarm.webs.com/
Tho it doesn't say so on their website, online research says, at the very
least, they have a Walt Boese cock. I do not know the lineage of the
rest of their flock. Worth checking into. Winning at show.

Best Regards,
Karen

 

[BGMatt]

LOL. Make sure you take the opportunity to promote your breed of choice.

They are good looking birds.

They are simply attractive and unique at the same time. We do not have anything else like them. A good looking flock ranging is something to look at.

Speaking of which. Did you notice that flock on the Minorca Facebook page? That was a good looking flock.

Well, yeah, have to promote the breed. I'll have to get some ranging pictures if my friend convinces me to build the large range pens for the adults this summer! (Edit: nobody looks good right now in the breeding pens, the male's favorite could almost pass for a naked neck right now. LOL)

And no I didn't know there was a Minorca FB page, I'll have to take a look, love the look of Mediterraneans, excellent class of poultry, second only to the awesome Asiatics.

 

[southernmomma]

Aaaahh, faith renewed!

G, you're correct in that my determination will see me through....I've set my sights on certain characteristics and will not waver

.

3riverschick, thank you for the offer to help and I may accept the offer yet but perhaps not until next year. As my plans take shape I feel the need to extend my timeline; aside from building coops there are fences to erect, forage to establish, etc.....I want to predator test my enclosures with some feed store chickens before investing in stock and attend a largish show in the late fall (my first experience being disappointing and resembling some sort of tawdry yard sale, lol). To answer your question, I'm not ready to declare myself to a breed quite yet

I have ideas and am working through the possible solutions.

I'm happy that the general consensus seems to favor the possibility of standard bred stock being available for a "newbie"

. I do have time and patience enough.

Thank you all!
M