Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[ronott1]

It has 3 vents with plugs on the side with the digital readout, one has the plug cut so it is permanently open and two on the back with one cut and permanently open. You are saying use a humidity pad and take out some or all of the other 3 plugs if the humidity gets too high? I agree with the oxygen.........

The three causes of late hatch death are, with the most common cause first:

1. Temperature
2. humidity
3. ventilation

The room is important along with dead air or dead air pockets in the hatching room

I hope this helps hatch a bunch of Heritage, Standard bred chicks this year!

 

[Beekissed]

Bee, you and I have chatted here for a long time. You know my thinking as well as most folks, I hazard saying. We've been working with (H) Barred Rocks now for over three years. We started off a base of GSBR (pretty fair layers in their own right) and have kept that line pure, but I've been working really hard at a cross with a fork of the Maine line. What I am seeing is incredible type. SOP, near take to the show beauty. Do I enjoy that? Sure. But, and this is much more important to me personally, is that the meat creation is simply outstanding. There was a carcass shown earlier by UphillJill. Perhaps most important to me is intelligence, temperament that is calm, business like and eager to forage, but also willing to be confined during our horrid winters. That Big Grey Book lays beside my easy chair and yes, it gets studied regularly.

I absolutely demand quicker maturity, both in body size and egg laying starts. I want a quality, large egg and I want to see a consistent 4-5 eggs per week. Frankly, the pullets are knocking out 5 eggs a week. I am pleased as pleased can be. I feel the strain needs another year or two of work for feathering precision, as that is important to me, but I won't sacrifice the virtues of this venerable breed, America's most popular on the farms and homesteads of the century past.

It's all what you breed for, seems to me. Within the century old DNA of these Rocks is all the makings of the breed as the birds once were. To breed for 10 years, blinded by the sheer desire for egg production would make these birds into something they never were intended to be. But, to breed for slower, slower, and slower maturity because one is enthralled by the beauty alone that such slowness often creates but all else (maturation, egg laying and vigor) is sacrificed on that altar is a gross injustice to the breed and nonsensical vanity in my book.

Yes! Fred, I knew you were onto something with your flock and I knew we were thinking the same thing...pretty is nice but if she can't do the housework, what do I need her for? If I dip into the deep waters of breeding...true committed breeding...I would want to do it for all the right reasons. Not for showing, though producing stock worthy of it. Not for money, for I don't have need of it. Not for prestige or bragging rights, for I have no need of that either.

If I jump in it will be for the effort of producing something I've never had before and something worthy of time and feed...a true breed that performs as the breed should always perform, in all ways~ conformation, laying, feathering, breeding, brooding, health, foraging, survival instincts, feed thrift, mothering, meat density. Like you and Kathy have been working towards...for the sheer need to produce a better bird so that time spent on the bird is worth doing.

All that takes contemplation and searching for the right bird, the right line and the right attitude within myself to see it through to the end. It's a commitment towards excellence and it's something I've always taken to heart in my other pursuits in life. But..I'm not a martyr, so if it cannot be done with our modern day lines, I wasn't going to invest in trying to make it happen.

Thank you for letting me know it can be done, is being done and thusly can be repeated by someone else.

I originally posted the pic of a BR meat carcass on the Plymouth Rock Breeders thread, but here it is again. A 7.5 mo old HBR cockerel, 6lbs 7oz:



Yes, I processed my GNHs much younger (around 20-22 weeks) but they were all under 5lbs. If I have to wait a bit longer for the HBR cockerels to grow out, at least I'm getting a bigger meal.

Worth noting that this guy was our slowest growing cull. Our keeper cockerel matured a bit faster, is a bit fuller in the chest and straighter in the keel.

Nice carcass! Long breast filets on that bird! Those are good weights, no matter how you slice it.

 

[Zanna]

The three causes of late hatch death are, with the most common cause first:

1. Temperature
2. humidity
3. ventilation

The room is important along with dead air or dead air pockets in the hatching room

I hope this helps hatch a bunch of Heritage, Standard bred chicks this year!

Thanks! I have been hatching successfully for many years in my hovabators but need to get this new Sportsman figured out..........

 

[Fred's Hens]

All that takes contemplation and searching for the right bird, the right line and the right attitude within myself to see it through to the end. It's a commitment towards excellence and it's something I've always taken to heart in my other pursuits in life. But..I'm not a martyr, so if it cannot be done with our modern day lines, I wasn't going to invest in trying to make it happen.

Thank you for letting me know it can be done, is being done and thusly can be repeated by someone else.

Nice carcass! Long breast filets on that bird! Those are good weights, no matter how you slice it.

That.

I'd sure get the right line or lines to start, that's for sure. Starting right out way behind the 8 Ball is no good.
Second, I'd get the breed I wanted. If you don't have a certain passion for the breed, I find it nigh on impossible to conjure it up.

I've waited, as you know Bee, for almost 5 years for the right line of White Rocks to come along. I've found what I'm looking for. Hope to get started on them this spring. That's all I'll say for now. But rest assured, I'll push them the same way. In the future? They'll be dead on SOP and gorgeous, but they'll carry the mail, you can bet on that. The Standard for these birds included a level of productivity and utility. That's what it was all about. Without the productivity and utility, the thing is just a dressed up poser, not living up to it's potential. You just gotta get the right start and then push, push, push.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Regarding Brahmas, is it possible to have a nice heavy 10lb. hen lay four or five eggs a week? From what I have noticed with my Brahmas is that the lighter weights lay better than the heavy weights. I was just figuring while everyone was talking about this I could ask.

One thing to remember is that size and egg production are inversely correlated, the larger the bird, the less eggs they will lay. It's why Leghorns are one of the best producers out there, they are among the lightest/smaller breeds and why you'd be lucky to find a Jersey Giant hen that lays above 160+ eggs a year.

For their size, my Langshans are my best layers. I'm still getting 18 eggs every 2 days, even the bantams are busting out the eggs like it's Easter. They're keeping up with my Leghorn which is also producing smaller eggs than my larger Langshan pullets.

I digress, the smaller the bird, the more (generally speaking) they should lay. Minorcas lay less than Leghorns but it may be possible to increase the amount of laying but I wouldn't expect any bird with any amount of size to be able to compete in laying volume against a smaller bird.

 

[Beekissed]

That.

I'd sure get the right line or lines to start, that's for sure. Starting right out way behind the 8 Ball is no good.
Second, I'd get the breed I wanted. If you don't have a certain passion for the breed, I find it nigh on impossible to conjure it up.

I've waited, as you know Bee, for almost 5 years for the right line of White Rocks to come along. I've found what I'm looking for. Hope to get started on them this spring. That's all I'll say for now. But rest assured, I'll push them the same way. In the future? They'll be dead on SOP and gorgeous, but they'll carry the mail, you can bet on that. The Standard for these birds included a level of productivity and utility. That's what it was all about. Without the productivity and utility, the thing is just a dressed up poser, not living up to it's potential. You just gotta get the right start and then push, push, push.

Those are the ones! And I know you are right...you must fit your work to your passion for the breed. I try to get enthused about this or that more available breed, but I always come back to a love for the White Rock. I can't say enough good about that breed and I've only had old hatchery genetics...if the genetics can shine through that strongly from hatchery genes, there has got to be something special in that breed. They have everything I want and more but I have no true experience of the bird from a heritage viewpoint and it could be that my very little experience with the breed is inconclusive...but I'd sure like to find out.

Oh, Fred, if you could just post pics and some progress on your line it would be like cool, clear water to my chicken thirsty soul to hear of it!

I could live vicariously through your progress for a bit until I can see my way clear to maybe venturing into the big time, if possible.

As far as I'm concerned, the WR is already royalty but to be able to work with true royalty would be divine. Imagine what you will be able to do with that!!!

 

[cgmccary]

Quote: Yes. How are you doing M ____la, my longtime friend? I agree with you. Put another way: Increase egg production beyond what the breed should be and you decrease the meat qualities, thus a dual purpose breed is not going to lay like an egg breed nor be as good a meat bird as a purely meat breed -- but a dual purpose breed is going to be a better meat bird than an egg breed AND a better layer than a meat breed -- you move one direction, you lose the other . . . . also, some dual purpose birds are geared more one way than the other. Some strains of the same breed or geared more one way than the other. Other strains might have lost both.

 

[Beekissed]

One thing to remember is that size and egg production are inversely correlated, the larger the bird, the less eggs they will lay. It's why Leghorns are one of the best producers out there, they are among the lightest/smaller breeds and why you'd be lucky to find a Jersey Giant hen that lays above 160+ eggs a year.

For their size, my Langshans are my best layers. I'm still getting 18 eggs every 2 days, even the bantams are busting out the eggs like it's Easter. They're keeping up with my Leghorn which is also producing smaller eggs than my larger Langshan pullets.

I digress, the smaller the bird, the more (generally speaking) they should lay. Minorcas lay less than Leghorns but it may be possible to increase the amount of laying but I wouldn't expect any bird with any amount of size to be able to compete in laying volume against a smaller bird.

I don't know that I agree with that fully. I think it's just breed potential and what they've been developed towards. I know a good many small breeds and birds out there that can't lay worth a shucks and I've had big mama jamma White Rocks put eggs in the nest when all the others have stopped~consistently and for years. There are true dual purpose breeds out there.... and then there are just some bigger birds that lay eggs because they are chickens.

I think laying prowess is breed specific, not size specific.

 

[BGMatt]

One thing to remember is that size and egg production are inversely correlated, the larger the bird, the less eggs they will lay. It's why Leghorns are one of the best producers out there, they are among the lightest/smaller breeds and why you'd be lucky to find a Jersey Giant hen that lays above 160+ eggs a year.

For their size, my Langshans are my best layers. I'm still getting 18 eggs every 2 days, even the bantams are busting out the eggs like it's Easter. They're keeping up with my Leghorn which is also producing smaller eggs than my larger Langshan pullets.

I digress, the smaller the bird, the more (generally speaking) they should lay. Minorcas lay less than Leghorns but it may be possible to increase the amount of laying but I wouldn't expect any bird with any amount of size to be able to compete in laying volume against a smaller bird.

I partially agree with this, but even with Leghorns you'll find birds that put a lot of their feed into fat and body mass rather than laying. But a larger framed leghorn is going to lay more than a smaller framed one, they just have more capacity to lay. That's why I use the method's I do with great result, they apply across all breeds. But yes larger "dual purpose" breeds will lay less than a smaller breed because the smaller breed doesn't have to spend the calories they intake to fuel a larger body. You can still select the birds that put more into their eggs and increase production though.

 

[Texasmja]

That.

I'd sure get the right line or lines to start, that's for sure. Starting right out way behind the 8 Ball is no good.
Second, I'd get the breed I wanted. If you don't have a certain passion for the breed, I find it nigh on impossible to conjure it up.

I've waited, as you know Bee, for almost 5 years for the right line of White Rocks to come along. I've found what I'm looking for. Hope to get started on them this spring. That's all I'll say for now. But rest assured, I'll push them the same way. In the future? They'll be dead on SOP and gorgeous, but they'll carry the mail, you can bet on that. The Standard for these birds included a level of productivity and utility. That's what it was all about. Without the productivity and utility, the thing is just a dressed up poser, not living up to it's potential. You just gotta get the right start and then push, push, push.

Fred, I love the passion you have for your birds, that is how I feel about bringing back the LF Wyandottes. I have a deep passion for the breed and all that they are when they are at their best, it brings joy to my heart when I see a great one.