Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[3riverschick]

Quote:
Sussex - See if you can locate a strain of True North Hatchery's light Sussex - they may be the most productive Light Sussex in North America

Jan Childs has them down at her Cornerstone farm. She is a chef and got them from Emily at TruNorth to eat and raise to eat.
best,
Karen

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
Caponizing the best bird of the season was one of my concerns, too. Then I realized I could just caponize the birds that are obvious culls from day one. For example, yellow soles are obvious from hatch time so once I get my flock built up I can start culling the chicks that don't have yellow soles.

My other problem is I can't tell if they are cockerels or pullets until they're getting on the large side for caponizing. Some of these cockerels are really slow to develop.

There is a good BYC thread on caponizing for those who are interested in learning how to do it. It's worth reading the whole thread. One person has been organizing purchases of tool sets from China, which saves a lot on shipping costs. I have the tools. Now I need some already-dead chicks to practice on before I'm willing to try it on a live bird.

The pics are graphic, so don't go there if you are squeamish:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/675898/graphic-pics-of-my-day-learning-to-caponize

 

[Yellow House Farm]

EXACTLY! I read a lot of antique cookbooks and am even cooking from them - particularly the cookbooks from the mid 1700s through the 1800s. Their idea of meat is definitely different from ours. Many of the cookbooks from this time period include things like the weight of a bird to be used in the recipe, how to raise the meat, how to slaughter the meat and how to cut it up and use it. And they used everything, not just a small portion of the animal that they butchered.

They didn't go through the drive thru and ask them to Super Size their chickens.

Precisely! 1700's and 1800's? PM me some titles. That's great. I would add, too, that one doesn't even have to go back that far, although that is outstandingly cool.

Here's heritage chicken in a nutshell. I could add many other sources, but these serve to illustrate how our entire chicken reality has completely changed. Notice the first book, perhaps the single most popular cookbook n America, is coming from the 1964 edition--not so long ago:

The Joy of Cooking, 1964.
The introduction to poultry begins, "Poultry cooks and tastes best if used within 8 to 24 hours after slaughter." This though wouldn't even occur to the 2014 mind. They offer: "Young chickens ofeither sex are called broilers if they weigh about 2 1/2 pounds and fryers if they weigh 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 pounds. Roasters, also of either sex, are under 8 months old and weigh 3 1/2 to 5 lbs [...] Capons, or castrated males, weigh 6 to 8 lbs. "Fowl" is a broadly polite "nom de plume" for hens aged 10 months or more, and a "stag" or "cock" for males that are too old to roast, but are well-flavored adjuncts for the stock pot.

La Cuisine Raisonnee. I believe the first edition was in 1919. The is the "Joy of Cooking" of Quebec
In its introduction to poultry it offers some indicative definitions. The term used to describe weights, "jusqu'a (up to)" betrays the that there was common variance in weight, which might reflect the variety of breeds used in an economy that was still based in regional food production:
"Broilers; up to 2lbs.
Fryers: up to 4lbs.
Roasters: up to 4lb.
Capons: up to 8lbs
Fowl/Hens...[no exact weight offered, which would also make sense considering the variety of possibilities at the time]
Modern Priscilla Cook Book: One Thousand Home Tested Recipes. 1924.
The chapter on poultry in the book begins with a neat introduction. One of the assumptions is that you are going to have to pluck and dressed at home the bird you brought from the market. It says "chicken" has pinfeathers with no hairs, while fowl has long hairs instead of pinfeathers. Interestingly, many recipes call for so many cups of diced chicken. I would that the reason would be that chickens, purchase whole, would be cooked, either roasted or braised, and then the meat would be pulled from the bone, diced, a then used over the course of multiple meals. I know that we do that here. Every weekend I stew up a couple of birds. I pull the meat and put it in a bowl in the fridge. I save the stock for cooking, and I feed the skin to the dog. Over the course of the week, we draw on the chicken and dice it up for various preparations.
"Chicken Baked with Parsnips": 2 young roasting chickens, 9lbs.
"Broiled Chicken": Have (4) 2.5/lb broilers dressed and split [spatchcocked] for broiling.
"Fricassee of Chicken": 7/lb. fowl

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
Here's heritage chicken in a nutshell. I could add many other sources, but these serve to illustrate how our entire chicken reality has completely changed. Notice the first book, perhaps the single most popular cookbook n America, is coming from the 1964 edition--not so long ago:

The Joy of Cooking, 1964.
The introduction to poultry begins, "Poultry cooks and tastes best if used within 8 to 24 hours after slaughter." This though wouldn't even occur to the 2014 mind. They offer: "Young chickens ofeither sex are called broilers if they weigh about 2 1/2 pounds and fryers if they weigh 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 pounds. Roasters, also of either sex, are under 8 months old and weigh 3 1/2 to 5 lbs [...] Capons, or castrated males, weigh 6 to 8 lbs. "Fowl" is a broadly polite "nom de plume" for hens aged 10 months or more, and a "stag" or "cock" for males that are too old to roast, but are well-flavored adjuncts for the stock pot.

La Cuisine Raisonnee. I believe the first edition was in 1919. The is the "Joy of Cooking" of Quebec
In its introduction to poultry it offers some indicative definitions. The term used to describe weights, "jusqu'a (up to)" betrays the that there was common variance in weight, which might reflect the variety of breeds used in an economy that was still based in regional food production:
"Broilers; up to 2lbs.
Fryers: up to 4lbs.
Roasters: up to 4lb.
Capons: up to 8lbs
Fowl/Hens...[no exact weight offered, which would also make sense considering the variety of possibilities at the time]
Modern Priscilla Cook Book: One Thousand Home Tested Recipes. 1924.
The chapter on poultry in the book begins with a neat introduction. One of the assumptions is that you are going to have to pluck and dressed at home the bird you brought from the market. It says "chicken" has pinfeathers with no hairs, while fowl has long hairs instead of pinfeathers. Interestingly, many recipes call for so many cups of diced chicken. I would that the reason would be that chickens, purchase whole, would be cooked, either roasted or braised, and then the meat would be pulled from the bone, diced, a then used over the course of multiple meals. I know that we do that here. Every weekend I stew up a couple of birds. I pull the meat and put it in a bowl in the fridge. I save the stock for cooking, and I feed the skin to the dog. Over the course of the week, we draw on the chicken and dice it up for various preparations.
"Chicken Baked with Parsnips": 2 young roasting chickens, 9lbs.
"Broiled Chicken": Have (4) 2.5/lb broilers dressed and split [spatchcocked] for broiling.
"Fricassee of Chicken": 7/lb. fowl

Interesting that the "Modern Priscilla" book claims "fowl" has "long hairs" instead of pinfeathers. My young javas have lots of "long hairs." Also zillions of pinfeathers when molting. Think I'll stick with the Joy of Cooking definitions, which are generally consistent with the ones from Quebec. "Fowl" is an older hen.

I do the same as you with my chickens - make stock, then pull the meat off for use in other recipes. I'm amazed at how much flavor the meat still has after 3-4 hours in a stock pot. Meat from a grocery store chicken would be tasteless by then.

 

[Lacy Blues]

EXACTLY! I read a lot of antique cookbooks and am even cooking from them - particularly the cookbooks from the mid 1700s through the 1800s. Their idea of meat is definitely different from ours. Many of the cookbooks from this time period include things like the weight of a bird to be used in the recipe, how to raise the meat, how to slaughter the meat and how to cut it up and use it. And they used everything, not just a small portion of the animal that they butchered.

They didn't go through the drive thru and ask them to Super Size their chickens.

This is something I have been interested in locating. Could you PM some titles to me please?

 

[Canieldonrad]

I'll be honest, I may try that method I believe Joe had come across. To ball up fatty morsels and force feed them to La Flèche culls in the days before slaughter.

Nevermind, it was someone else.

http://books.google.com/books?id=b_...=onepage&q=la fleche breeding secrets&f=false

Page 245 from the Journal of Horticulture and Practical Gardening, Volume 2, discusses how La Fleche were traditionally crammed by hand for about 2 months before slaughter to fatten them up.
There's info about Dorkings in there also.

 

[NanaKat]

Love my 1934 copy of The Joy of Cooking.

Wyandotte birds are nice textured succulent meat with a great taste...cooked as fryers, roasters or boiler.

Currentlty breeding the senior cock over the older hens and a few of the daughters. Fertility is good and the first small test batch hatched yesterday.

Question from a discussion last week about breeding hens instead of pullets. At what stage does one consider a pullet breedable? Do you go by size, age, length of laying or all three?
Reason for the question:
Wyandotte pullets that started laying at age 6 - 7 months are now 9 - 10 months, finished full molt and are laying again. They have reached mature size. Two are attempting to go broody.
These are some of the daughters under the senior cock. If I should pull them from the breed pen until they are a full year of age, there is time in the hatching schedule to allow for that change.

Interested in the advice...please.

 

[gjensen]

I would imagine that your Catalana program runs a lot like our Ancona program

; what I was addressing above favored more a Dorking approach to things.

The reality is that, once one becomes intimately acquainted with one's stock, one can cull all along the way, thus obtaining, broilers, then fryers, then roasters, and finally fowl. We cull out Anconas more heavily up front, but I retain Dorkings longer that, were they Anconas, wouldn't make the cut, but that's just to put size on them.

Piet's point, is exactly what I was getting at. If the modern broiler is what you actually want, then raise modern broilers and be done with it. We raise and consume Dorkings because it is actually what we want to eat. I prefer the richer flavors and more toothsome meat, which are the result of a longer growing time and stronger muscles. You will establish your actual, real-time, personal cookery around the meat that is in your freezer. Raise meat that corresponds to your culinary goals and expectations, and/or have culinary goals and expectations that match the meat you want to raise. Then, once you have that meat, cook that meat in an appropriate fashion. The results will be delicious. Difficulties disappointment arise when we place the expectations of oranges on the flesh of an apple.

I have never had Dorkings. Every bird that I have processed that late was certainly good tasting. It was a good thing because you were going to chew it for a while.

I prefer young birds. That is why I would not mind trying capons. I would not do many considering the cost.

 

[catdaddyfro]

I have never had Dorkings. Every bird that I have processed that late was certainly good tasting. It was a good thing because you were going to chew it for a while.

I prefer young birds. That is why I would not mind trying capons. I would not do many considering the cost.

George you got me on that one LOL

Jeff

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Caponizing the best bird of the season was one of my concerns, too.  Then I realized I could just caponize the birds that are obvious culls from day one.  For example, yellow soles are obvious from hatch time so once I get my flock built up I can start culling the chicks that don't have yellow soles.

My other problem is I can't tell if they are cockerels or pullets until they're getting on the large side for caponizing.  Some of these cockerels are really slow to develop.

There is a good BYC thread on caponizing for those who are interested in learning how to do it.  It's worth reading the whole thread. One person has been organizing purchases of tool sets from China, which saves a lot on shipping costs.  I have the tools.  Now I need some already-dead chicks to practice on before I'm willing to try it on a live bird.

The pics are graphic, so don't go there if you are squeamish:
 https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/675898/graphic-pics-of-my-day-learning-to-caponize

This. Thanks for your post! Only use the obvious culls such as those with side sprigs on combs, feather sprigs on legs, clean-legged on a feather-legged breed, as your caponized birds. We did it on our production Brahmas. I won't lie..we had a few "slips" but they did gain weight and were larger than the birds that weren't caponized. It's really not that difficult and costs nothing but time.