Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[gjensen]

I asked Bob Blosl one time how I could breed closer feathers on my Light Sussex. He replied that I should breed for 25 more eggs a year from my hens. When I did that, the closer feathering would follow on the coattails of increasing the egg productivity.
Best,
Karen

Qty. of eggs will not tighten the feathers. Breeding birds for closer feathering is selecting those individuals that have it. How hard that is depends on how much variability there is in the offspring.

The surest route and fastest route, is the most direct route. We do not want to run out on a bunch of rabbit trails, and get lost doing it.

 

[holm25]

I have a STUPID question are B/B/S standard Cochin considered a heritage breed?? I have searched alot and it says partridge cochins are but didnt know if color caused something to be non heritage.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

You do not need to cross into another Columbian. That will give you even more grief.


Please be concerned with the under color (fluff) though. I do not think that you should have any, but you will find some useful off and on.

Speaking of color, you had some questions about red bleeding through? Is that right?

I'm resisting all the advice to cross in something else. Besides the fact that I think it's too early for this project line, I don't really want to set things up so I can have a second breed going for long enough to know it well enough to create the best possible version of a third breed by combining those two, then keep all of three of them going separately ...

I do have issues with red bleeding through ... on pullets/hens. Careful inspection can find some "salmon" on some of the younger pullets, on some red feathers pop out just before POL, and after the first adult molt (18 months-ish) most of the hens grow various shades & textures of red/buff/brown on their backs where they should be white.

Both the females in my starter trio molted into buff barred backs after their first breeding season, so I worry it's terminal here. I didn't re-use either of those females. I'm acting as if it's not terminal, but how to best move forward is a bit of a head scratcher.

I have a couple of last year's breeders that seem to be coming through molt with white backs. I'm contemplating "only" breeding from them next season, though I'm doing better with type on this year's pullets.

Both my original male and the son of his I mated this year don't seem to have any buff/brown/red feathers. The son reads more "gray" than his father, and that is where I'd start looking carefully at fluff. The son's type is an improvement, though, and we've already got matings planned for him. Assuming things don't change.

I hate to admit this, but bathing the birds seems to be a good way to evaluate their fluff color.

 

[gjensen]

I have a STUPID question are B/B/S standard Cochin considered a heritage breed?? I have searched alot and it says partridge cochins are but didnt know if color caused something to be non heritage.

I do not think it is a stupid question. The Cochin is a "heritage" breed and blue is an accepted, and recognized color for that breed. So I would say yes. If it is in the Standard, it is.

 

[MagicChicken]

I have a STUPID question are B/B/S standard Cochin considered a heritage breed?? I have searched alot and it says partridge cochins are but didnt know if color caused something to be non heritage.

There is no standard definition of "heritage" in the poultry world. Generally it refers to breeds that were in the Standard before the advent of commercial-oriented production birds. Many people use 1950 as the pivotal year, but the year is somewhat arbitrary.

The breed may have been in the Standard a long time, but the variety (color) may be a more recent addition. So you will find people who will argue that a recent variety isn't "heritage" because of its color.

A more useful way of looking at it might be "Are these birds representative of what would have been walking around a barnyard before World War II, and have they been bred to an accepted Standard?" If the answer to both questions is "yes" you've got a "heritage" bird.

Note the distinction. You can have a bird that is supposed to be a "heritage" variety that has been in the Standard since the early 1900's, but if it has been bred in a production environment or randomly crossed in someone's backyard without regard to the Standard it isn't really a "heritage" bird. Even though someone slapped a "heritage" breed name on it.

 

[gjensen]

I get nauseated with the discussions that go on forever about what is heritage or not.

To me, if it is in the Standard, it is good enough. I do not care about the silly dates either. The bird is a good bird or it is not.

Concerning the breed, it has been around longer than many others. It has an influence in one way or another for a lot of breeds, including my Catalanas. Obviously, they are not what they were. They are ornamentals today. Is that cause to take away their heritage status by the heritage police? I doubt it. The breed has more history than any other represented on this thread at this time.

Concerning the color blue, it was accepted in 65, but it was around longer than that. LOL. Recognized for 50 years. The color has been around longer than me. That is good enough, LOL.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Hahaha! I do consider Delawares pretty "new." But, in theory, once you have Delawares you can make more Delawares, and that does set them apart from industrial meat birds, which seems to me to be how most people use the word heritage: "recognized non-industrial self-perpetuating breed."

 

[Rod-T]

I think alot people. . Just call heritage if it from breeders that try to breed them to the sop. .
Hatchery is just production birds often crossed with other breeds.
So when people say theses birds are hatchery. . And these birds are heritage. . I guess easier to say ..oh these are from breeders that try to breed them to a sop..

 

[3riverschick]

I'm finding Delaware pretty challenging, color wise. I've got enough going on with the color that I'm not too focused on fluff yet. But concern about messing up the fluff does make a handy excuse when people tell me to cross in some other breed of Columbian color to help.

Hi,
Well if you are going to do that, make sure it is an eWh based breed or you will be crossing alleles and that brings in a whole 'nother can of worms. What a pain to weed out the heterozygotes.
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

You do not need to cross into another Columbian. That will give you even more grief.


Please be concerned with the under color (fluff) though. I do not think that you should have any, but you will find some useful off and on.

Speaking of color, you had some questions about red bleeding through? Is that right?

I agree, not crossing is a good thing.
Best,
Karen