Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[CanadianBuckeye]

I have about a hundred Silver Campine eggs in the bator right now..... is that bad?

Yes it's bad.
It's half what it should be.

Seriously, good luck with the hatch! I wanted silver campines myself, but they didn't sound like a good breed for my climate.

Such a Beautiful breed........ They have very pretty faces.

 

[Wisher1000]

Oh, it is just a start, I'm hoping I will be putting 40-50 a week in the bator through May. As long as my hens keep up!

Beautiful faces? They do, don't they? Most people comment on the contrast between the bright white hackles and dark barring as their most striking feature, but I love their dark eyes against their red faces and white earlobes. Pair that with a smooth, medium sized, single comb and it is absolutely breath taking. Of course, I'm a little biased.

 

[gjensen]

Leslie, that is a good looking group of birds. I would be happy to be working with them. You guys are doing well with them. Watch the feathering.

The discussion of productivity goes round and round. It is simple. They have it or do not have it. In other words, they are improved, or they have not been improved. Then it is a use it or lose it game. If you are not literally pushing them to a better place, they are falling back to their unimproved state. The natural current is always towards mediocrity. If you allow them, that is where they will drift. Guaranteed. If you are not pushing them, they are going backwards. The tendency is to drift back to their origins as jungle fowl. That is pretty simple I think. It is simply use it or lose it.
There are no magic selection points to make birds more productive like feathering etc. All of that stuff is wives' tails. What we have learned along the way is the most direct points of selection are the most sure and certain points of selection. Concerning eggs, you count eggs. That is pretty simple, but that is the most direct selection point. Then you cull eggs etc. For flesh, it is quality of carcass in young age groups. Again that is pretty simple. The numbers do not lie. There are other points of selection to keep in mind. They are the sum of their parts, but it is not complicated. It is simply a seasonal rhythm of measurable.

Breeding them is another matter and subject.

The truth is that we enjoy chatting about our birds being productive or not, but we are rarely interested in an intentional and intelligent effort to work in a positive direction. For many of us, it is all we can do to select for type and color. That is a lot on it's own, and we often outsource help for that.

If we are not breeding them to be more productive, or we cannot do it, we should leave the topic alone. We should simply say that I breed for type and color alone. That is an honest answer. It is not for everyone to do. We live in the year 2016. It is very rare to find someone that is actually breeding their birds along these lines. Many are interested, but not interested enough to actually go through the trouble to do it. There is no incentives to go through the trouble, and there is nothing wrong with that.

The Delaware breed has a could be/should be identity. Many are attracted to the breed because of the story, or what they were. What they were was a utility breed that never caught on in the exhibition circle. They were accepted, and they were a here today, gone tomorrow breed. They were a victim of their timing. They did not establish themselves among the Rocks and Reds. Much of what we have today is a color pattern, and a story. Personally, I am interested in the breed. Much of the interest for me in the beginning was their relation to the New Hampshire. It also works that I like the black tailed color varieties. Black Tail Red, Black Tail Buff, Black Tail White etc.
It will always be my opinion that the Delaware should be selected to be fast growers and good layers. More than many other breeds, because they were a utility breed at their core. That is my thinking, but that does not have to be for anyone else. We are in 2016.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

@gjensen, thanks for the positive feedback. It means a lot coming from you.

I like the color pattern, too. The barring is an interesting variation. I really love the dark tail with buff like on Brahmas, or golden red body color like on New Hampshires. I hope we can keep improving the color in my pens so the bodies are predictably bright "stay white."

I selected the cockerel in my breeding pen now partly for nice wide feathers. The thinner feathers make an interesting jazzy tail, but it's not correct. And I want the females to have good protection, which means they shouldn't be too fluffy. Comparing my hen pen to the pulley pen, I can see the progress. That's mostly been luck, but I'll take it.

We're working on the tracking forms. We'll wing band and track so we can make a plan. We also sent a bunch of "spent hens" off to the auction today so we can do a better job tracking laying rates of the Delawares. One way I can push the flock toward year-round laying is to hatch winter eggs, so I'm getting set up with incubators (previously we've only used broodies). The birds we sent were hatchery hens and home-grown mutts, looking pretty good right now -- I attribute that to our great feed -- and they laid a few eggs in the auction cages so sold for way more than we thought they would. Its a weird time to send laying hens off, but it will be great to narrow our focus. We'll do a better job.

I totally agree the breed is a lot about the marketing story. I'd love to see how much truth we can put to it. I will say, productive or not, slow as they are, my older cockerels dress out very well and make super yummy roasters. My pullets are laying nice big eggs.

It's a fine start.

 

[NanaKat]

so, who is hatching what and how are your flocks progressing?
 Best,
 Karen

So far I have had two small hatches...trimmed bumm feathers and fertility is up now...and the hens are laying like crazy. I'm setting a tray of 102 eggs every five days
Now there are over 100 Columbian Wyandotte eggs in the incubator...13 chicks with a brood hen and 10 eggs under a broody hen.
There are 25 White Wyandotte and White over Columbian eggs incubating and 5 chicks with a brood hen.
The Buckeye have 10 eggs in th incubator.
And 30 Cochin eggs incubating and two chicks with a broody. I have a friend picking up 18 eggs that are in the turner.
There are two Bantam hens sitting on Rosecomb, OEGB and Serama eggs.
20 Delaware eggs are in the incubator and 18 eggs are under three broody hens...going to have to change up the roosters in the pens to improve fertility. Four roosters and 10 hens...need to set up trios and quads to see which rooster is shooting blanks.
12 Ringneck pheasant eggs are incubating

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

So far I have had two small hatches...trimmed bumm feathers and fertility is up now...and the hens are laying like crazy. I'm setting a tray of 102 eggs every five days
Now there are over 100 Columbian Wyandotte eggs in the incubator...13 chicks with a brood hen and 10 eggs under a broody hen.
There are 25 White Wyandotte and White over Columbian eggs incubating and 5 chicks with a brood hen.
The Buckeye have 10 eggs in th incubator.
And 30 Cochin eggs incubating and two chicks with a broody. I have a friend picking up 18 eggs that are in the turner.
There are two Bantam hens sitting on Rosecomb, OEGB and Serama eggs.
20 Delaware eggs are in the incubator and 18 eggs are under three broody hens...going to have to change up the roosters in the pens to improve fertility. Four roosters and 10 hens...need to set up trios and quads to see which rooster is shooting blanks.
12 Ringneck pheasant eggs are incubating

How on earth do you keep track of all that? Please share!

 

[gjensen]

@gjensen , thanks for the positive feedback. It means a lot coming from you.

I like the color pattern, too. The barring is an interesting variation. I really love the dark tail with buff like on Brahmas, or golden red body color like on New Hampshires. I hope we can keep improving the color in my pens so the bodies are predictably bright "stay white."

I selected the cockerel in my breeding pen now partly for nice wide feathers. The thinner feathers make an interesting jazzy tail, but it's not correct. And I want the females to have good protection, which means they shouldn't be too fluffy. Comparing my hen pen to the pulley pen, I can see the progress. That's mostly been luck, but I'll take it.

We're working on the tracking forms. We'll wing band and track so we can make a plan. We also sent a bunch of "spent hens" off to the auction today so we can do a better job tracking laying rates of the Delawares. One way I can push the flock toward year-round laying is to hatch winter eggs, so I'm getting set up with incubators (previously we've only used broodies). The birds we sent were hatchery hens and home-grown mutts, looking pretty good right now -- I attribute that to our great feed -- and they laid a few eggs in the auction cages so sold for way more than we thought they would. Its a weird time to send laying hens off, but it will be great to narrow our focus. We'll do a better job.

I totally agree the breed is a lot about the marketing story. I'd love to see how much truth we can put to it. I will say, productive or not, slow as they are, my older cockerels dress out very well and make super yummy roasters. My pullets are laying nice big eggs.

It's a fine start.

Consider the pullets as your winter layers. Hens naturally let up after their molt, and cycle up as the days get longer. It is a double whammy of sorts. What you will find is your best laying pullets (overall) are your best winter layers (most of the time). Usually these are your best laying hens. Then it is a matter of pushing length of lay. The length of the pullet and hen year amounts to quantities of eggs. If you are going to actually count and track eggs, do it consistently for the entire laying cycle.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Consider the pullets as your winter layers. Hens naturally let up after their molt, and cycle up as the days get longer. It is a double whammy of sorts. What you will find is your best laying pullets (overall) are your best winter layers (most of the time). Usually these are your best laying hens. Then it is a matter of pushing length of lay. The length of the pullet and hen year amounts to quantities of eggs. If you are going to actually count and track eggs, do it consistently for the entire laying cycle.

Agreed. That's my goal. To get the pullets in their own pen so I can track weeks to POL and then count eggs for the whole "year." So far, I've only been tracking Delaware-specific eggs seasonally, which gives an overly optimistic impression.

 

[gjensen]

Agreed. That's my goal. To get the pullets in their own pen so I can track weeks to POL and then count eggs for the whole "year." So far, I've only been tracking Delaware-specific eggs seasonally, which gives an overly optimistic impression.

Really, we are working with a population. We are trying to move a population of birds forward. We think individually, and we should. It is a trees and forest thing. We do not want to neglect either. So in terms of a population, we are looking at an average. Removing the bottom performers drastically improves the average. Doing this alone is maintenance. You have many points to consider selecting your birds. At least identify and remove the bottom performers, cull eggs, and try to emphasize the birds that excel. If you do nothing else, you have been faithful to what you have to work with. The strengths and weaknesses of strains will vary, and they should.

 

[NanaKat]

So far I have had two small hatches...trimmed bumm feathers and fertility is up now...and the hens are laying like crazy. I'm setting a tray of 102 eggs every five days
Now there are over 100 Columbian Wyandotte eggs in the incubator...13 chicks with a brood hen and 10 eggs under a broody hen.
There are 25 White Wyandotte and White over Columbian eggs incubating and 5 chicks with a brood hen.
The Buckeye have 10 eggs in th incubator.
And 30 Cochin eggs incubating and two chicks with a broody. I have a friend picking up 18 eggs that are in the turner.
There are two Bantam hens sitting on Rosecomb, OEGB and Serama eggs.
20 Delaware eggs are in the incubator and 18 eggs are under three broody hens...going to have to change up the roosters in the pens to improve fertility. Four roosters and 10 hens...need to set up trios and quads to see which rooster is shooting blanks.
12 Ringneck pheasant eggs are incubating

How on earth do you keep track of all that? Please share!

A quick explanation...
I keep a detailed records in a journal/notebook with a chart for each tray of eggs set...lists number of eggs from each pen. On candling day, I list the number of eggs from each pen still remaining the the tray. Then when moving to a hatch tray, each pen of eggs is candled and placed in a division of the hatch tray. Chicks are toe punched by pen and numbers are counted again. Helps me keep track of fertility by pen and hatch rate.
In the broody room, I keep track of the number of eggs each hen receives...giving her only one pen of eggs. Once hatched, those chicks are toe punched by pen. Again, I make notations on hatch %.

When chicks reach a cull date, they get a colored band as a keeper or as a cull. I feed out the culls till either freezer camp or selling as layer replacers or meat birds. Keepers are sorted by cockerel or pullets into the grow out pens until the next cull dates.