How do you feed your guineas when they are part of a mixed flock?
- Thread starter makingshift
- Start date
It's not the keets that have an issue with 30% protein, hon. She has a mixed brooder, like I do. The 30% is about 10% higher than chicks need. So, you can sometimes split the difference and have it ok - depending on how you go about doing it. That's all we're talking about.30% should be fine in a non-mixed brooder. Peeps is the one in the know if anyone is - I'm sure she'll say for certain.
The ones in that video are French Guineas, also. They grow fast. I couldn't believe how fast they feathered out. In no time at all (much quicker than my chicks) I had to put a lid on the brooder to keep them in. We were slow about the lid on the new brooder....fun times chasing keets around the room trying to catch them!!
Edit: Makingshift, I just now noticed you are right down the road from me. How funny is that. You should come join us on the Texas thread.
I also have a mixed brooder with 2 week old chicks and three guineas. This is our first guinea hatch, and I didn't know to up their protein until yesterday. We moved them to 24% protein because that was the most we could find at Tractor Supply, and the other area feed stores are sold out of game bird and anything higher than 24%. Is that okay for the chicks, too? I'm assuming it is. We've had them on 18%, and one of the guineas was shaking, but that could have been from the cold. He doesn't do it all the time. (We just moved the brooder with heat lamps to the shed from the kitchen because my dear, dear husband had had enough of them! He's pretty patient, but no sense pushing my luck.)
And my burning question is: how do you do fermentation of their feed? Just get it wet and let it "percolate" or what?
The chicken-duck-guinea-geese extravaganza is my oldest daughter's empire, so I have stayed out of the particulars of brooding/hatching/feeding, but I'd like to make sure they're getting what they need. My daughter is pretty knowledgeable, but like I said, this is our first go-round with guineas.
Makingshift, you and Kilsharion aren't that far from me -- I'm just on the east side of Houston. Right now we have some Black and Blue Copper Marans, some Welsummers, some assorted barnyard mixes from a friend for our brown egg laying flock, and some ducks and geese. Right now I have 30 "big" birds, 20 chicks, and -scary- but another 60 in the incubator due to come out in about two more weeks. That will have guineas, ducks, geese and chicks.
They're so addictive! No one told me! And even worse, my daughter and I are bad for each other. My husband is the only voice of reason! And there's a man at church with geese, ducks, and chickens who's always slipping us some fertile eggs of one kind or another. It's like he's the drug-dealer of the poultry world!
I would LOVE to get some Dorkings, and to see some Crele Dorkings. That may have to wait until we get a bigger place, though.
Will you post pics of your chicks and guineas, pretty please!
Hey there! Glad to see you
There are a few ways to ferment feed and I can't say that any one way is the right way to do it. All variations have their benefits. The one bonus to all forms of fermentation is that you can pretty much guarantee a 3% increase in crude protein levels.
Yes, you can just put the feed in water and let it sit, uncovered and outside. With our weather, this time of year is very conducive to doing just that. You'll get a wild yeast colony eventually interested. Quicker interest if your feed has molasses in the mix.
An easier way to start fermenting your feed is by using some sort of starter. The starters are as varied as the forms of fermentation through the history of mankind - literally. Some swear only lactic acid bacteria (LAB) is the way to go. Some swear indigenous micro-organisms (IMO) is the way. Others say use yogurt. Others say use sour dough mother. Some say just apple cider vinegar with mother. Some say baker's yeast and sugar.....see where this is going?
Regardless of how you start it, you wind up with a beneficial product. The feed is broken down in such a way that it assists in the digestion, which in turn increases nutritional intake and reduces the smell of their poo (no, I'm not kidding).
Many (most) suggest adding Apple Cider Vinegar (you'll see it abbreviated ACV) with mother to inject great probiotics and help with ensuring no alcohol begins to form - the grains in FF are great for making hooch if you let it sit unmolested for several days. The vinegar prevents that as vinegar converts alcohol to...vinegar. Lots of big words if you want the details; but, that's about all you need to know, there.
If you use something to kick start your FF instead of just letting it soak and sit (a perfectly viable option, btw - you will know when it's started to ferment by the bubbles, etc), you should see fermentation activity within 24 hours. Especially at our temps. I let mine sit outside, uncovered. I get all sorts of bugs and insects added into the mix - I just leave 'em in there. Hey, I can use all the protein I can get!!
I stir it a couple times in the morning and in the evening - whenever I walk by it. You need to stir it to introduce fresh oxygen and encourage the fermentation (assuming you choose not to do a sealed fermentation - a whole other post). Depending on the feed you're using, you'll get different smell results....I've found in my experimentation that Purina crumbles smell like bread dough - where H&H feed (has fishmeal in it) smells rancid and nasty. It's the fermenting fish meal that does it. Thus why my FF is kept outdoors and well away from sensitive noses. 
It's a good idea to have about an inch of liquid above the feed after it all settles down; but, it's not necessary. Many do what I call a "dry ferment". I prefer doing it with the liquid barrier. Just my druthers.
There's a whole thread on FF here called Fermented Feed for Meat Birds. I don't know if you want to wade through it. It may cause more questions than it answers; but, it is a great resource. Or - you can just keep asking me and I'll give you the information I have available. No problems, there.
In my mix, I have my fermented feed (which is actually a mix of the options above, btw) to which I add kefir (fermented milk - takes the crude protein of the milk from ~3% to ~12.5%) and mealworms (49% crude protein). I mix in dry feed until the consistency is about like what you'd use to build a sand castle (assuming you've ever done that). Just this week, I started mixing dry gamebird feed instead of dry chick starter since it's 24% (also the only protein level I could find for gamebird feed, so don't feel bad). The mix, all told, comes out to roughly 26-27% protein. Not ideal for either; but, workable. The slightly elevated protein levels are not as bad for the chicks as having the guineas on not nearly enough protein.
As for photos...I don't have many of those; but, I do have this video of them on their first night in The Eggcelsior (our first stationary coop).
I'm totally an enabler, so be warned. And, my husband can't tell me no...as a matter of fact, he's having a blast building my town of coops (in my signature box titled Landstown).
If you still want some Creles in about a year, give me a shout. I'll see what I can do for you from my batch....afterall, I'm over that way pretty regular since I have kids (and a soon to be grandbaby) in Houston.
[VIDEO]
Edit: oh, yeah...the way you keep your fermented feed going is the same as you would a sourdough starter. You take out the feed that you want to use for that day - well strained. Return the liquid to the bucket along with any unused feed, add fresh feed and some fresh water to the mix in the fermentation bucket. Stir it around and let it keep right on going. No muss no fuss.
There are a few ways to ferment feed and I can't say that any one way is the right way to do it. All variations have their benefits. The one bonus to all forms of fermentation is that you can pretty much guarantee a 3% increase in crude protein levels.
Yes, you can just put the feed in water and let it sit, uncovered and outside. With our weather, this time of year is very conducive to doing just that. You'll get a wild yeast colony eventually interested. Quicker interest if your feed has molasses in the mix.
An easier way to start fermenting your feed is by using some sort of starter. The starters are as varied as the forms of fermentation through the history of mankind - literally. Some swear only lactic acid bacteria (LAB) is the way to go. Some swear indigenous micro-organisms (IMO) is the way. Others say use yogurt. Others say use sour dough mother. Some say just apple cider vinegar with mother. Some say baker's yeast and sugar.....see where this is going?
Regardless of how you start it, you wind up with a beneficial product. The feed is broken down in such a way that it assists in the digestion, which in turn increases nutritional intake and reduces the smell of their poo (no, I'm not kidding). Many (most) suggest adding Apple Cider Vinegar (you'll see it abbreviated ACV) with mother to inject great probiotics and help with ensuring no alcohol begins to form - the grains in FF are great for making hooch if you let it sit unmolested for several days. The vinegar prevents that as vinegar converts alcohol to...vinegar. Lots of big words if you want the details; but, that's about all you need to know, there.
If you use something to kick start your FF instead of just letting it soak and sit (a perfectly viable option, btw - you will know when it's started to ferment by the bubbles, etc), you should see fermentation activity within 24 hours. Especially at our temps. I let mine sit outside, uncovered. I get all sorts of bugs and insects added into the mix - I just leave 'em in there. Hey, I can use all the protein I can get!!
I stir it a couple times in the morning and in the evening - whenever I walk by it. You need to stir it to introduce fresh oxygen and encourage the fermentation (assuming you choose not to do a sealed fermentation - a whole other post). Depending on the feed you're using, you'll get different smell results....I've found in my experimentation that Purina crumbles smell like bread dough - where H&H feed (has fishmeal in it) smells rancid and nasty. It's the fermenting fish meal that does it. Thus why my FF is kept outdoors and well away from sensitive noses. It's a good idea to have about an inch of liquid above the feed after it all settles down; but, it's not necessary. Many do what I call a "dry ferment". I prefer doing it with the liquid barrier. Just my druthers. There's a whole thread on FF here called Fermented Feed for Meat Birds. I don't know if you want to wade through it. It may cause more questions than it answers; but, it is a great resource. Or - you can just keep asking me and I'll give you the information I have available. No problems, there.
In my mix, I have my fermented feed (which is actually a mix of the options above, btw) to which I add kefir (fermented milk - takes the crude protein of the milk from ~3% to ~12.5%) and mealworms (49% crude protein). I mix in dry feed until the consistency is about like what you'd use to build a sand castle (assuming you've ever done that). Just this week, I started mixing dry gamebird feed instead of dry chick starter since it's 24% (also the only protein level I could find for gamebird feed, so don't feel bad). The mix, all told, comes out to roughly 26-27% protein. Not ideal for either; but, workable. The slightly elevated protein levels are not as bad for the chicks as having the guineas on not nearly enough protein.
As for photos...I don't have many of those; but, I do have this video of them on their first night in The Eggcelsior (our first stationary coop).
I'm totally an enabler, so be warned. And, my husband can't tell me no...as a matter of fact, he's having a blast building my town of coops (in my signature box titled Landstown).
If you still want some Creles in about a year, give me a shout. I'll see what I can do for you from my batch....afterall, I'm over that way pretty regular since I have kids (and a soon to be grandbaby) in Houston.
[VIDEO]
Edit: oh, yeah...the way you keep your fermented feed going is the same as you would a sourdough starter. You take out the feed that you want to use for that day - well strained. Return the liquid to the bucket along with any unused feed, add fresh feed and some fresh water to the mix in the fermentation bucket. Stir it around and let it keep right on going. No muss no fuss.
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- Thread starter
- #24
sorry- double post
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- Thread starter
- #25
Argh! Just lost a post...
Kilsharion- thank you for sharing all that info! That was fascinating. I am totally going to try fermenting their feed. So do you use fermented feed for chicks as well as adult birds?
Hehahn- I read a post on here the other day that describes that phenomenon as "chicken math". The way 2 chickens turns into 6 turns into 12 turns into ducks and geese and guineas.... and so on. I think I'm experiencing the same problem!
Kilsharion- thank you for sharing all that info! That was fascinating. I am totally going to try fermenting their feed. So do you use fermented feed for chicks as well as adult birds?
Hehahn- I read a post on here the other day that describes that phenomenon as "chicken math". The way 2 chickens turns into 6 turns into 12 turns into ducks and geese and guineas.... and so on. I think I'm experiencing the same problem!
My pleasure. I enjoy discussions on FF as it causes me to gather more data points. I'm actually waiting for a replacement refractometer so I can do a full experiment to answer some concerns folks have had about accidentally feeding their birds something alcoholic. Not at all likely to happen; but, putting hard data together is a lot easier to stand behind than just anecdotal opinion/experience. Even if the science backs up what you say, having an actual set of raw data tends to quiet even the most difficult people.
I've fermented for years with beers, wines, kimchi, coffee, yogurt, and my own vinegars. Other various and sundry things..it's a fun thing to do along with canning and pickling. So, when I started feeding chickens, it just made sense to ferment the feed. Especially when I was finding out about pasty butt and other such things - like protein requirements, etc. I mean...what better way to help ensure the most healthy digestion and best nutrition possible than fermentation, right?
I had never done kefir until the last few months. My friend, Yinepu here on BYC, gave me a few grains of it when I took her some Silver Greys. I'm hooked. I'm finding myself using it in everything.
I use the fermented feed for chicks, absolutely. I use a flat tupperware top for one of the largest bowls they make. It keeps the food contained (another reason I like mixing dry food in to get a drier consistency) without giving a lip for someone to get their neck snapped on. Not a huge deal with all the chicks/keets are the same age; but, if you run a mixed brooder like I was (more than a month's difference between oldest and youngest), you have some things to which you have to pay a wee bit more attention. In a standard brooder where everyone's the same age, a bowl or uncovered feeder works. For me, the covered feeders just don't work. The chicks just refuse to get in there after it once it's out of the direct line of the hole. Others swear it works great. So - YMMV. I have found that I have had extremely healthy chicks while feeding FF. The only losses I've had have been failure to thrive (no matter what, the little fellas just wouldn't grow - that includes using an emergency concoction I learned during my time doing raptor/avian rescue)..and, the one escape artist who's not died...he's just not in the coop. Though he has stood at the "door" of the coop to talk to the rest of the flock.
To understand that, you have to see the front of the coop:
Um...I really need to get an updated photo...
That 'door' on the front is completely covered in hardware cloth. It's got a pop in piece for when we get inclement or cold weather....which, as you know, is rare. The escape artist gets up on the boardwalk, there, and sits in front of the "door" and natters on at his brooder mates. As soon as Mike gets anywhere near him, he's off and back under the coop. So, figure as long as he stays dry, we'll just hope for the best.
I admit, I've probably been really lucky...but, I'll take my blessings where I can.
As for chicken math.....I started out buying my gals on a whim. Yup - a whim. I put no forethought into it. I didn't have a coop. I'd never considered a coop or raising chickens. I grew up with them. My great uncle Sam used to hatch out his eggs in an old feed trough full of hay with heat lamps over it. Not kidding. And, he lived in south Illinois. Not exactly warm weather, that. Blows my mind to think about, now days. Granny (my mother's grand mother) was so fast in grabbing and snapping that by the time you had registered that she had moved, she had grabbed the chicken, snapped its neck and had it on the way to the bag. I always thought she'd have made a hellacious gun fighter. Anyway, I always associated chickens with large quantities of land. And, I'm only on 2.5 acres. However, those little gals just snuck in and grabbed me when I wasn't looking. I swear!! I was shanghai'd!!
Within about a month, my chicken numbers had doubled. It's just kinda grown from there. My husband is actually responsible for the Guineas, though. He had some when he was a child and has fond memories of them. So, when he found out there were some available not too far from us...I got to start learning about Guineas! I've been very appreciative for all the wonderful information Peeps has shared. It's helped save my sanity a time or two ((like freaking out because flight feathers were curling 
)). I'm a little ... um...I suppose you could say I tend to "mother hen" my flock.
Oh my goodness, I love that second photo...that's almost like they posed!!
Edited: punctuation
I've fermented for years with beers, wines, kimchi, coffee, yogurt, and my own vinegars. Other various and sundry things..it's a fun thing to do along with canning and pickling. So, when I started feeding chickens, it just made sense to ferment the feed. Especially when I was finding out about pasty butt and other such things - like protein requirements, etc. I mean...what better way to help ensure the most healthy digestion and best nutrition possible than fermentation, right?
I had never done kefir until the last few months. My friend, Yinepu here on BYC, gave me a few grains of it when I took her some Silver Greys. I'm hooked. I'm finding myself using it in everything.
I use the fermented feed for chicks, absolutely. I use a flat tupperware top for one of the largest bowls they make. It keeps the food contained (another reason I like mixing dry food in to get a drier consistency) without giving a lip for someone to get their neck snapped on. Not a huge deal with all the chicks/keets are the same age; but, if you run a mixed brooder like I was (more than a month's difference between oldest and youngest), you have some things to which you have to pay a wee bit more attention. In a standard brooder where everyone's the same age, a bowl or uncovered feeder works. For me, the covered feeders just don't work. The chicks just refuse to get in there after it once it's out of the direct line of the hole. Others swear it works great. So - YMMV. I have found that I have had extremely healthy chicks while feeding FF. The only losses I've had have been failure to thrive (no matter what, the little fellas just wouldn't grow - that includes using an emergency concoction I learned during my time doing raptor/avian rescue)..and, the one escape artist who's not died...he's just not in the coop. Though he has stood at the "door" of the coop to talk to the rest of the flock.
To understand that, you have to see the front of the coop:
Um...I really need to get an updated photo...
That 'door' on the front is completely covered in hardware cloth. It's got a pop in piece for when we get inclement or cold weather....which, as you know, is rare. The escape artist gets up on the boardwalk, there, and sits in front of the "door" and natters on at his brooder mates. As soon as Mike gets anywhere near him, he's off and back under the coop. So, figure as long as he stays dry, we'll just hope for the best.
I admit, I've probably been really lucky...but, I'll take my blessings where I can.
As for chicken math.....I started out buying my gals on a whim. Yup - a whim. I put no forethought into it. I didn't have a coop. I'd never considered a coop or raising chickens. I grew up with them. My great uncle Sam used to hatch out his eggs in an old feed trough full of hay with heat lamps over it. Not kidding. And, he lived in south Illinois. Not exactly warm weather, that. Blows my mind to think about, now days. Granny (my mother's grand mother) was so fast in grabbing and snapping that by the time you had registered that she had moved, she had grabbed the chicken, snapped its neck and had it on the way to the bag. I always thought she'd have made a hellacious gun fighter.
Anyway, I always associated chickens with large quantities of land. And, I'm only on 2.5 acres. However, those little gals just snuck in and grabbed me when I wasn't looking. I swear!! I was shanghai'd!! Within about a month, my chicken numbers had doubled. It's just kinda grown from there.
My husband is actually responsible for the Guineas, though. He had some when he was a child and has fond memories of them. So, when he found out there were some available not too far from us...I got to start learning about Guineas! I've been very appreciative for all the wonderful information Peeps has shared. It's helped save my sanity a time or two ((like freaking out because flight feathers were curling )). I'm a little ... um...I suppose you could say I tend to "mother hen" my flock. Oh my goodness, I love that second photo...that's almost like they posed!!
Edited: punctuation
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That photo too cute. Chick "dude what's wrong with your beak!?" 
That's exactly the one I thought was so amazingly cute. I'd frame it **grins** Oh, and happy update - I caught our escape artist this morning! :yiipchick
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Ugh makingshiftNow I want baby duckies more than ever. (Must resist must resist must resist)
Kili, glad you caught the escapee! One less thing to worry about. LOVE your coop... how cute!
Thanks for the compliment on my coop. It's one in a series that we are doing - which is where "Landstown" originated. The next one is going to be a Saloon....Mike's named it "The Broken Yolk" to go with "The Eggcelsior" (the hotel - he's just not painted the name on it or done the awning, yet).
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