I An Idea For All of You, do you agree (concerns My Genetics Opinion)

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Now this is well-stated: urging people to take on a "project" of preserving an endangered breed. NOT comparing or saying it is a better choice, just advocating and recommending that people to consider it. Someone may not be interested in picking up the torch, but they haven't been offended in the process.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
"DOING PROJECTS" - Guilty as charged, and enjoying every single challenging, frustrating, educational, thrilling, maddening, exciting, depressing, rewarding and fun minute of it!

Not once have I ever heard the genetics gurus here on BYC, such as henk69, blackdotte, tadkerson and so many more, tell anyone to just sit back and leave the "projects" to the professionals. Instead, they are here, so very generously contributing their time, expertise, counseling and encouragement to literally thousands of members.

And they share their wealth of knowledge with the world writing genetics books, so that others can understand, enjoy, and yes, even participate in, their passion of genetics.

I am also guilty of seeking the expertise of those more experienced than I here on BYC (and other forums), as well as spending hundreds of dollars on their aforementioned books, as well as spending hundreds of hours reading them. Even though I will never be even close to a genetics guru, I do take my "projects" very seriously: I do my best to study not only the genetics involved, but also the breed and color standards involved.

If anyone is interested, there was a similar thread on the-coop awhile back, with similar results.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I am also guilty of seeking the expertise of those more experienced than I here on BYC (and other forums), as well as spending hundreds of dollars on their aforementioned books, as well as spending hundreds of hours reading them. Even though I will never be even close to a genetics guru, I do take my "projects" very seriously: I do my best to study not only the genetics involved, but also the breed and color standards involved.

Which is what you should do

As long as you have some background and you know what your looking for, and also your serious about it

Why does one have to be serious? As many have stated, that is one way they learn, they are enjoying themselves and their animals. Some people just want a fancy mix of yard chickens, and that is perfectly fine.

 

[rancher hicks]

I haven't read all the posts but two things I will take issue with.

1. Helping chicks out.
One can't say for sure how much help a broody hen give in hatching her chicks. I recently had one who hatch all four of her eggs over a period of three days. She was outside with three chicks, I had no idea how long she was off that fourth egg but I put her back in the nest and the next, there was number four.
Incubating eggs is nothing like a broody hen, not even close. God Lord, who knows what temp those eggs get to while she doing her business. As far as I can tell she has no hygrometer in there unless she's hiding it. So whether to help or not is up to each of us to decide and chicks getting stuck may very well have nothing to do with genetics but the doofus human trying to perform to the ability of a broody hen.

2. As for the "experts", just who decides whose an expert or not? I'm fairly certan that many breeds we call heritage weren't developed by "experts". Heck I'm not even sure they knew what genetics were. Even the experts weren't experts in the beginning. I may be no expert but I'm on my way. Or at least I hope so.
I believe it's the new Practical Poultry magazine that has an article about a gentleman in Australia that has developed a new breed. He may or may not be considered an expert. It did take him 17 years. IMO they are ugly birds.


3. Producing a "pretty" show bird does not constitute producing a good utilitarian chicken. I've read that in doing so many of the traits desired in the original breed have been lost. Which in my opinion is why many are disappointed with one breed or another. For example many are upset with the RIR roosters being mean or the Polish not laying enough eggs. As of this writing I've got some pretty poor excuses for Delawares. If these are the standard for the dual purpose of laying eggs and meat they are sorely lacking in the meat department. They were once considered a "broiler" breed. Certainly the originals did not look like these, if they did then I guess folks didn't mind drumsticks the size of todays chicken wings. I'm not expert of course but I'll keep researching until I am.

4. The above are all my own thoughts and opinions. Don't lose any sleep over them please.

Hope someone reads this, Lord knows there are as many op's as there are members of BYC, maybe more.

Rancher

 

[usschicago1]

Quote:
Which is what you should do

As long as you have some background and you know what your looking for, and also your serious about it

Why does one have to be serious? As many have stated, that is one way they learn, they are enjoying themselves and their animals. Some people just want a fancy mix of yard chickens, and that is perfectly fine.

First of all I asked YOUR opinion, not what some people want. And I am Talking about specifically projects birds, if you want to embark on a project you want to be serious to create your breed or variety ? Thats how breeds are created. If you want a cool barnyard mix bird, you wouldst have to be serious.

Sonaran Silkies I really appreciate your input you you dont have to question everything i say

 

[usschicago1]

Quote:
Your Right, i retract my word expert and really if you research and are serious about it anyone can do it. Some background knowledge and know what your doing and anyone can create a breed. Not just jumping right into in and making crosses, as i stated before.

And your totally Right about the incubator thing, you never really know

 

[AZKat]

I've got a couple of thoughts on the 'project' question. The first is that chickens are better suited than any animal I can think of for the amateur breeder-they are small, relatively inexpensive to feed and house, the 'mistakes' will still produce eggs or meat, and best of all a generation can be 6 months or less. This last means that developing a new breed or a new color is something that can be accomplished in a single human lifetime. All of this is why there are such a mind-boggling number of chicken breeds, once the idea of scientific breeding took hold people started making new kinds of chickens like crazy.
As a slight tangent from this point, I think that as with a lot of things, the internet is making it seem like there are more people doing projects than ever before. A hundred years ago, if some woman in Warren, Ohio (for example) decided to make a new breed of chicken, most people wouldn't hear about it until the 'project' was finished, or nearly so, and Mrs. Metcalf was ready to start selling Buckeyes. Today, Buckeyechickens would be posting to BYC about how she was happy with the size of her Buff Cochin/Barred Rock cross, but they were sort of lazy, so she was thinking of breeding in something else and what does BYC think of using Dark Cornish vs. American Gamefowl.

The second thought is that in preservation, there are two important, but separate factors. The first is breed preservation-that is, maintaining and preserving specific breeds of chickens. The second is about preserving the genetic diversity of the species as a whole. Let us make no mistake-most of the chickens in the world come from a very few breeds that were created very recently for the purpose of industrial scale meat or egg production. This is where the real danger lies, in a tiny number of breeds being the only kinds of chickens that are left and a huge amount of genetic diversity being lost. In that sense, I think that everyone in this thread is on the same side-regardless of if we're trying to create a new color or breed, enjoying our barnyard mixes or carefully maintaining a flock of pedigreed heritage chickens.

As for helping chicks out of the shell-I'm le lazy. Incubating is too much like work, so I let the broodies do it all.

 

[big medicine]

Quote:
"DOING PROJECTS" - Guilty as charged, and enjoying every single challenging, frustrating, educational, thrilling, maddening, exciting, depressing, rewarding and fun minute of it!

Not once have I ever heard the genetics gurus here on BYC, such as henk69, blackdotte, tadkerson and so many more, tell anyone to just sit back and leave the "projects" to the professionals. Instead, they are here, so very generously contributing their time, expertise, counseling and encouragement to literally thousands of members.

And they share their wealth of knowledge with the world writing genetics books, so that others can understand, enjoy, and yes, even participate in, their passion of genetics.

I am also guilty of seeking the expertise of those more experienced than I here on BYC (and other forums), as well as spending hundreds of dollars on their aforementioned books, as well as spending hundreds of hours reading them. Even though I will never be even close to a genetics guru, I do take my "projects" very seriously: I do my best to study not only the genetics involved, but also the breed and color standards involved.

I am glad to see that you emphasize studying the breed standards. That is a concern of mine. If working on a variety of an existing breed, please study how that breed should be put together. If your "blue spotted yellow tailed wyandottes" have clean yellow legs, and rose combs, but are closer in build to say rocks, you are only part way there. I feel this is often what seperates the casual from the serious hobbyists.

 

[sunket77]

wow! this was long and lots of good responses! here is my 2 cents....

If you have the land and the money to take care of the birds you choose to breed (pure breed or mix) then I can't see why there would be a problem. I have been finding it more difficult to hatch pure breeds than mix's that can turn out to be good layers or brooders. And as far as mix breeds go I have a perfect dog who is a GSD mix and I absolutely LOVE

my new cochin/silkie crosses! I do however can see a problem when breeds should not be mixed! Two birds with completely different traits can sometimes have genetic defects. I have a nankin/polish cross that was the result of an egg mix up and is the ugliest little thing with crooked toes, I have no idea what to with it! On the other hand I am dealing with 2 japanese pullets that both are not good quality, one has long legs and the other has wry tail, they both came from perfect birds. AND aren't we playing with "nature" when we artificially incubate to begin with? So I suppose in IMO I disagree with the original post, especially when it comes to deeming "who" is actually a pro and who is not.

 

[usschicago1]

Quote:
"DOING PROJECTS" - Guilty as charged, and enjoying every single challenging, frustrating, educational, thrilling, maddening, exciting, depressing, rewarding and fun minute of it!

Not once have I ever heard the genetics gurus here on BYC, such as henk69, blackdotte, tadkerson and so many more, tell anyone to just sit back and leave the "projects" to the professionals. Instead, they are here, so very generously contributing their time, expertise, counseling and encouragement to literally thousands of members.

And they share their wealth of knowledge with the world writing genetics books, so that others can understand, enjoy, and yes, even participate in, their passion of genetics.

I am also guilty of seeking the expertise of those more experienced than I here on BYC (and other forums), as well as spending hundreds of dollars on their aforementioned books, as well as spending hundreds of hours reading them. Even though I will never be even close to a genetics guru, I do take my "projects" very seriously: I do my best to study not only the genetics involved, but also the breed and color standards involved.

I am glad to see that you emphasize studying the breed standards. That is a concern of mine. If working on a variety of an existing breed, please study how that breed should be put together. If your "blue spotted yellow tailed wyandottes" have clean yellow legs, and rose combs, but are closer in build to say rocks, you are only part way there. I feel this is often what seperates the casual from the serious hobbyists.