I may be growing my own food for the chickens after all, due to genetic editing

[saysfaa]

I found a source that sells 5 pounds ($12.50) or 25 pounds ($37.50) of faba bean seeds.

325 sq ft per pound of seed x5 pounds =1625 sq ft of field
325 sq ft per pound of seed x25 = 8125 sq ft of field

8125 sq ft is about 1/5 of an acre

Plant 132 pounds of seed per acre
yield, 6.7 tonnes per hectare = 5977 pounds per acre per internet converter

1/5 of an acre might yield 1195 pounds from 25 pounds of seed

soybean oil meal weighs about 4 oz per cup

A standard commercial diet is about 1/4 c per day per hen or 1 c per day for 4 hens

360 cups per year divided by 4 to get pounds is 90 pounds

Conclusion: 5 or 10 pounds of seed should do it. If I harvest beans. This assumes favorable weather, favorable soil, and that the learning curve to growing it isn't too steep. And, of course, it assumes the deer are fenced out.

It doesn't like sand very well and that is what I have, mostly, especially in the fields that are more ready to plant this spring.

Also, the protein profile is very similar to soybeans - good in many ways but also very low in MET.

My time is better spent on other options this year. Enough of the other options will also be the first time to try them.

I might plant a small block of them just to see how they do.

As always, do your own math, this is not only very rough but it is also likely to have mistakes.

 

[Sally PB]

DH was wondering if I should grow some insects (mealworms or BSFL) for my chickens. I mentioned that I can get a lot of Japanese beetles for free (well, for my time) in July and August. If I spent more time hunting them, or added pheromone traps, I could harvest even more. But how would he feel about storing JBs in the freezer for non-JB season? Surprisingly, he's fine with that, as long as they're contained, of course.

So that made me wonder... what is the nutritional profile for JBs? I didn't spend a lot of time on this search, but found a couple of sources.

"They have the same protein content by weight as sirloin beef steak, 23g/100g, and are an excellent source of B12 and zinc."
https://ironwoodforaging.com/blog/f/eat-japanese-beetles

"Japanese beetles are very high in protein content and as much as 40% of their body weight may be composed of protein. Because of this, they may be substituted for meat when cooking."
https://quirkbrain.com/japanese-beetles-edible/

This was aimed at people foraging/eating the bugs... Nope, not doing that.

I also found this site, but didn't spend much time there, as it's lunchtime, and I'm not eating JBs.
http://avianaquamiser.com/posts/Japanese_beetles_as_chicken_feed/

 

[BDutch]

Humans have been selectively breeding plants and animals for advantageous traits for thousands of years. We keep pushing for more product with less waste in less time. GMOs (or whatever we are calling them now) are just the next step in this. If we can force 1000 years of cross breeding by just modifying the genetics of a seed and result in a bigger, better and faster plant with no side effects from their consumption, why shouldn't we?

GMOs have been the big scary thing for some time as the enemy to "healthy eating", but the reality of the situation is that the alternative is starvation. With this absolutely ridiculous population we are trying to support on this rock, we NEED the ability to pump out even more food from our limited farms just to keep people fed.

Nonsense.

Not all, but much GMO food is poisoness.
The idea of Monsanto/Bayer was to create crop (like soy of corn) that was resistent to poisons . But the used poison was poisonous for the wild weeds that surrounded them.
It has been proven successful for the seeds and poison industry. But people living in or near the field with GMO crops, got very sick. With abnormalities too.
The soy and mais coming from these fields are permitted as feed for animals like cattle, pigs and chickens.
These GMO croos are not allowed for human consumption because of the poison load.

If they would use the land for normal crops that can survive in a more natural environment the revenue in kilograms/pounds wouldn’t be so high.

But if we eat less meat we don’t need so much soy and corn for the farm animals (factory farming). And we could all live healthier.

• There was less burning down of rainforests.
• Less pollution because we don’t need such enormous amount of transport.
• Less NOx pollution from the cattle manure.
• Less animal cruelty in factory farming.

Of course the are crops that are genetically manipulated for other reasons. But if people speak of GMO in feed for animals it’s likely about the poison resistant (=poisoned) crops.

 

[BDutch]

alternative is pesticides and crop loss. and i bet pesticides cant be good for humans in the long run. or bees lol.

?
GMO is often a combination of genetic manipulation and an abundant use of pesticides.

 

[BDutch]

I am mostly a big fan on GMOs. It's hard to impossible to match the yields otherwise.

I do have concerns with the amount of glyphosate sprayed on "Roundup Ready" crops, but on the other hand, it is usually less total herbicide used than spraying several different kinds of more specific weed killers.

But look into golden rice. Even significant known risks are acceptable to prevent millions of people going blind from vitamin deficiencies.

Dont forget the poison industry pays huge sums of money to influence consumers and politicians to let us believe they do no harm.
In the mean time 75% of our insects have vanished in the last decades. (In Europe ).

 

[saysfaa]

DH was wondering if I should grow some insects (mealworms or BSFL) for my chickens. I mentioned that I can get a lot of Japanese beetles for free (well, for my time) in July and August. If I spent more time hunting them, or added pheromone traps, I could harvest even more. But how would he feel about storing JBs in the freezer for non-JB season? Surprisingly, he's fine with that, as long as they're contained, of course.

So that made me wonder... what is the nutritional profile for JBs? I didn't spend a lot of time on this search, but found a couple of sources.

"They have the same protein content by weight as sirloin beef steak, 23g/100g, and are an excellent source of B12 and zinc."
https://ironwoodforaging.com/blog/f/eat-japanese-beetles

"Japanese beetles are very high in protein content and as much as 40% of their body weight may be composed of protein. Because of this, they may be substituted for meat when cooking."
https://quirkbrain.com/japanese-beetles-edible/

This was aimed at people foraging/eating the bugs... Nope, not doing that.

I also found this site, but didn't spend much time there, as it's lunchtime, and I'm not eating JBs.
http://avianaquamiser.com/posts/Japanese_beetles_as_chicken_feed/

I wish they had sources for the nutritional information but I don't doubt them. The methods to prepare them were interesting and maybe helpful.

As for collecting them for chickens, it wouldn't hurt to try it. But (sorry, there is a but)
I tried it the way each of the above sources did it - jar under the feeding beetles and traps. For hours and hours and hours and hours. We counted sometimes and easily got to 50 or 100 or several hundred per session from a 20x50 foot garden and did at least three or four sessions per day. I think we averaged about an hour per session. Early and late in the day, there were fewer than mid day.

The first year, I didn't have chickens and just killed them with soapy water. I was just trying to garden organically. I tried to get enough of them to have fewer the next year.

The second year, we had about the same numbers. I collected them partly to garden organically and partly to feed the chickens. The chicks ate hundreds of them every day for a couple of months. It didn't seem to hurt them. I also did a lot of research and found a possible organic remedy - planting four o'clock flowers. They are supposed to interfere with reproduction. So you don't see results the first year you plant them but should the following year.

The third year, we had fewer but I don't know if it was because of the four o'clocks. Dh didn't think the flowers would work and sprayed for grubs in the spring.

I tried freezing some. They came out in one big mass as they intertwine their legs so much. It might work if you parboiled them first. Maybe. They are pretty intertwined as soon as they are in the jar. Or, maybe it doesn't matter if they are intertwined; I don't know if it would work to chop a chunk off. Or freeze some and then add more - the layers don't intertwine with each other. The chickens didn't mind eating them intertwined but it meant Spice got nearly all of them. She was notable for not sharing (lol).

I tried the trap the first year. I think it attracted more into our yard from the surrounding area than it removed by trapping them. If you try it, empty the bag often - it is truly horrible if you don't. I'm not very squeemish and I thoroughly detest Japanese Beetles but even for them, I found the thought of them trapped in that stink unbearable. The bags are not easy to empty. I don't know if there is another kind of bag.

Uhm, they do fly back out unless you put water in the jar. Sometimes anyway. And they do fly instead of drop quite often - maybe a quarter of the time. More so if you shake the branch instead of pick them off.

It wouldn't hurt to try it but I'm looking pretty hard for a source of MET and don't think that is a viable solution because of how much time it takes to harvest enough of them. Even with a very thick population. And I didn't try an insect net - that might work over a pheromone patch. Or maybe not - even the grasshoppers legs got caught in the mesh. I think Japanese Beetle legs would be far worse in that way.

Let us know what you find out if you try it.

 

[saysfaa]

Dont forget the poison industry pays huge sums of money to influence consumers and politicians to let us believe they do no harm.
In the mean time 75% of our insects have vanished in the last decades. (In Europe ).

These are some of the multiple reasons for not liking GMOs
Also for promoting more use of locally grown foods
And less, or at least much smaller monocrop fields

And less harm from invasive species, less light pollution, less of many kinds of pollution, more diversity, more habitat for insects and other wildlife,

Also, trying not to cause worse problems in solving these though. I don't think eating less meat or dairy is the problem as much as how so much of it is produced. A fine point, but just a little change such as communities allowing chickens would make a lot of difference with less risk of unintended consequences.

 

[Sally PB]

I also did a lot of research and found a possible organic remedy - planting four o'clock flowers. They are supposed to interfere with reproduction. So you don't see results the first year you plant them but should the following year

I hadn't heard that. I might give it a try.
I've been hunting JBs for 2 seasons. It's as much to get rid of the things as to feed the chickens. Free feed is just a bonus.

I have heard that the pheromone traps do more harm than good by attracting more beetles, so I doubt I'll do that. I'd heard that they stink, so there's another knock against it too.

My method is to walk around my property with a wide mouthed jar with about an inch of water in it. I put the jar under where the branch/leaf JBs are, tap the branch, and they fall in. Since we have 25 acres, I have a lot of places where they like to eat. Some are on the neighbors' property, and I have their blessing to go hunting there as well.

Last year, I was gone for about a week of peak JB season, so my numbers were down. I am doing my best to eradicate them on my property (well, I can try), as they killed my hazelnut trees. This is a personal vendetta. I take a bucket with me into the garden, and harvest any grubs I find there too.

Protein question: if it's an animal protein, it's a complete protein, yes? I was hoping to find the methionine and lysine levels in JBs, but didn't. Do animal proteins provide enough of those amino acids?

I'm not hoping to grow/make my own feed. This is planned to be more of a healthy or natural treat that I can harvest for free. And do some pest control at the same time.

 

[saysfaa]

... Protein question: if it's an animal protein, it's a complete protein, yes? I was hoping to find the methionine and lysine levels in JBs, but didn't. Do animal proteins provide enough of those amino acids?

I'm not hoping to grow/make my own feed. This is planned to be more of a healthy or natural treat that I can harvest for free. And do some pest control at the same time.

I'm not so sure they are complete protein. I was shocked at how little MET meal worms have - there is always a possibility I looked at the numbers wrong or did the math wrong and they actually do have more than I thought. I also couldn't find that info on japanese beetles. I may try again.

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[raingarden]

A standard commercial diet is about 1/4 c per day per hen or 1 c per day for 4 hens

Shouldn't that be 1/4 pound per hen per day, not 1/4 cup per hen peer day.