International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Chooks man]

I'm glad that everyone is doing well and is still as active as ever on this thread. I'm excited to return to start sharing/learning with you all.

I would explain my absence but it is quite a long story, perhaps I will share bits and pieces along the way.
Shortly I will be sharing some quality photos of my good chicks... but for now I am going to share a few pictures of a few of my cockerels.


This is my current favorite. He has a poor comb, yet it is still better than both of his parents.
He greatly reminds me of his sire.

In this photo you can see a light colored/scrawny boy in the back.
I will be rehoming him away shortly.

Hello Hello .nice to see you back with us .we missed you around .

they did a lot growing your chooks . you done well .

here what I think of them .
I know this is not the perfect photos to comment on them but I ll give you my though any way .

they all have a long tail lucky is well placed .
they have a long back ,great
they seem to have a narrower body not as wide as we like them . they need mass and width .

the copper is great . there is a little presence of straw in there .bottom part of the hackle .

we need a better photos to examine them properly .

me I like the one in the middle . seem more correct to me or just a photo

love the way he is standing .love his tail ( looking at it from the back.his comb seem better . strait legs .

more photos when you have time please .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

They are beautiful! You have done such great work with them. Big healthy birds!

thank you .

was not easy to rise them in the extreme heat of the summer ,but I think I handle it good .well pleased about it .

now I have to sit an watch them growing .they have a lot of space to run around and a lot lot of grass too .

my best year when come to quality .over 120 Black copper to select from this year .Best season for sure and better result too.

chooks man

 

[baunlee]

Great to see everyone's chicks hatching out!

 

[Chooks man]

@Chooks man So far we've culled 2 chicks from the LA group with vulture hocks. Looks like you hit the nail right on the head when you said that middle toe feathering goes hand in hand with vulture hocks. You were right.

But on a more positive note, so far I have 3 eggs from Mud x the LA pullets I have saved to set. Mud has been with them for the past couple days.

Also, one of my LA BCM chicks has a small brown spot on it's head. I tagged it to watch it as it grows out.

i know they are related , because both are part of Pti2 . mean double feathering on the shanks .so middle toes and Vulture hooks are both part of the trait.

Marans have Pti1 .feathering only from the outside .

Chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

here a BCM pullet 7 weeks old I photographed this afternoon .
she is the Daughter of Zambezi over Norway .
this pullet and her sister have the best type and mass too .hackle start showing up rich red copper . she is correct in every aspect so far .



Zambezi and Norway are the perfect couple . they compliment each other very well .

happy about them .

chooks man

 

[KF0002]

Hi Kayla! Or should I say Chicken Whisperer! lol I don't know why but I have several friends that call me Ellie May! I say that's not the first time I have been called Ellie May!!! They always come up with this on there own not knowing that so many other people come up with the same name! lol

I love how tame my Black Copper and Blue Copper Marans are!!! The 8 that are about 14 weeks old. I just walked up to the group of them and picked each one up and took off the leg bands. I never heard a peep and no one even moved. We have been working in that pen putting up wire to keep the wild birds out. They where all under my husbands ladder. We had to be careful not to step on them. They where all under our feet. They are my babies I sure love them!!!

Ellie May is a cute nickname! They call me the chicken lady at work! lol

Ours are always underfoot also, and Mud my best BCM cockerel is so gentle all I have to do is walk up to him and pick him up. He doesn't run away or put up any fuss. He's a very sweet boy.

 

[KF0002]

i know they are related , because both are part of Pti2 . mean double feathering on the shanks .so middle toes and Vulture hooks are both part of the trait.

Marans have Pti1 .feathering only from the outside .

Chooks man

Yes they are related but not brother/sisters. They are more distant like uncle/nieces. Cooper's father's brother (Cooper's uncle) is my LA pullet's father best I can remember from the breeder.

 

[Chooks man]

i know they are related , because both are part of Pti2 . mean double feathering on the shanks .so middle toes and Vulture hooks are both part of the trait.

Marans have Pti1 .feathering only from the outside .

Chooks man

Yes they are related but not brother/sisters. They are more distant like uncle/nieces. Cooper's father's brother (Cooper's uncle) is my LA pullet's father best I can remember from the breeder.

Sorry .
What I m trying to say is . the Vulture hooks and the middle toe feathering are related to the same gene . this gene is marked as Pti2 ( a lot feathers every where on the shanks and toes ) it is dominant .
the marans should have the Pti1 ( feathering only the outer part of the shank and toes . no access feathering) not complete dominance .
and the Clean shanks types are Pti+ absence of any feathers any where on the shanks . Recessive .

So the middle toes fathering /Vulture Hooks are dominant .hard to deal with .nice if they are removed from the breeding flock in the future .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

here Hercules junior at 24 days of age .hasn t finished feathering up yet .very hard to a nice photo of him .he is a shy type .he doesn t know how special he is .



his genome is Ewh/Ewh. S/s+. Db/db+ . C+/c . Pti1/Pti1. ...........etc
and here is his brother .he is black Tail Buff .Golden based s+/s+


gorgeous comb .and nice long back

all White Storm turn up to be Super Sire .I m well pleased to have him .

here another half brother ( from different hen) he is Black tail Buff . he is a better type .wider at the shoulder


sorry it is a same cockerel

I try to find the other one

he is early feathering type . I like him better .

White Storm and his ladies are going to stay together for a long time . they are not going any where . THE ROYAL BLOOD LINE . I like a lot they progeny

Chooks man

 

[KF0002]

Sorry .
What I m trying to say is . the Vulture hooks and the middle toe feathering are related to the same gene . this gene is marked as Pti2 ( a lot feathers every where on the shanks and toes ) it is dominant .
the marans should have the Pti1 ( feathering only the outer part of the shank and toes . no access feathering) not complete dominance .
and the Clean shanks types are Pti+ absence of any feathers any where on the shanks . Recessive .

So the middle toes fathering /Vulture Hooks are dominant .hard to deal with .nice if they are removed from the breeding flock in the future .

chooks man

I understand what you're saying. It is frustrating to say the least. I am culling any LA chicks with vulture hocks and not keeping any with middle toe feathering. Should I cull the entire LA line?? I am willing to part with them and focus on my FRF birds if you think it would be best.

What I was thinking is maybe only keeping a few of the best LA pullets.. no excess white, no vulture hocks, and no middle toe feathering, then cull everything else.. including LA parent stock, all chick cockerels and all cull pullets. Then take those best pullets and put a FRF cockerel over them. Then take pullets from that mating and put a FRF cockerel back over them.. and so on and so forth until I am satisfied the vulture hocks gene is long gone.

My theory with what I would be trying to accomplish is:

1. The LA line has better tail angle and longer backs and the hens are nice and large, unlike my dainty FRF girl who is smaller and leaner. A lot of the genes for type and size comes from the hen. By using the LA pullets I think I could improve tail angle and back length.

2. Color comes from the cock in a mating. The LA line has some parasitic white and the FRF birds do not. By culling the LA cockerels and using a FRF male over the LA pullets the parasitic white could be corrected.

3. The LA birds have heavier leg feathering, the FRF birds have lighter. This could be corrected also this way.

The FRFxLA birds would be a project and marked differently than my pure FRF birds. I will continue to breed my main pen of FRF birds pure.

Thoughts?