International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[kcrandall]

spotted chest is very important because they are ER/ER family genetic
like I said before the spotted chest ,Ears tufts and the a well marked shoulder are a proper trait of a good ER/ER chooks ( BCM .BLCM .Birchen and a Silver/Golden cuckoo .

this trait are a good indicator of how the progeny is going to be well colored .

there is a lot for us to learn .there is some thing no body can explain .
if we look into the BCM and a Birchen marans roosters both are from the same family genetic ER .only the difference is the BCM is Golden based and the Birchen is Silver based ,but the chest marking is totally different .
the BCM have a spotted chest . random coppery feathers on the chest .
on the other hand we have a Birchen with a well laced feathers on they chest .
No body can explain it why is like this .
CM roo with a spotted chest and a Birchen roo will a well laced chest .

chooks man

Thanks Chooks Man, this all very good information which will go in my notebook!! I have a couple of questions for you:

1). Will the BCM Hen with good copper hackles and a spotted chest add copper hackles to her female progeny?
2). If so, then do we want to bred the BCM Hen with the spotted chest to a BCM Coq with overall good color but that has a black chest?

When I got to thinking about how we use the BCM Hen with a spotted chest in our breeding program my mind logically figured it must be the inverse of how we use the BCM Coq with a spotted chest.

Take Care,
Keith

 

[Chooks man]

Thanks Chooks Man, this all very good information which will go in my notebook!! I have a couple of questions for you:

1). Will the BCM Hen with good copper hackles and a spotted chest add copper hackles to her female progeny?
2). If so, then do we want to bred the BCM Hen with the spotted chest to a BCM Coq with overall good color but that has a black chest?

When I got to thinking about how we use the BCM Hen with a spotted chest in our breeding program my mind logically figured it must be the inverse of how we use the BCM Coq with a spotted chest.

Take Care,
Keith

very good question my friend .
here the catch .
the body color of the chooks is divided into 2 categories .
1) Sex linked colors S/S and S/- or s+/s and s+/- . this genes control the color of the hackle back and lancet on the Coq and the hackle on the hen

2) Autossomal Red or Silver Ar/Ar or ar+/ar+ = this one still a lot debate about it it. is a one gene or a group of them working together Like a Pattern genes need a lot of them to form a pattern not just one gene.
any way what we know about so far . the Autossomal Red/Silver control the color of the chest .ears tufts and the Shoulders on the Coq and Ears tuft,spotted chest on the hen.
on the ER/ER family genetic , the hen to no express the Autossomal colors on they Shoulders .but they do carry the gene/genes . So in this case the Autossomal is behaving like a sex linked . we still have a lot to understand .

So the ER/ER Hen always passes the Sex linked and the Autossomal genes to her sons not her daughters ( they get they colors from they Sire- Rooster-)
all this is a genetic inheritance law BUT NOT THE FRENCH STANDARD . they don t want the the ER/ER hen to have a spotted chest neither colored ears tufts . they only want the Rooster to have them . VERY WEIRD . they made the standard long time ago before they understood genetic law .
it is a main reason why they are always straggling to stable the colors of the BCM .BLCM and Birchen, because they are going again the law of nature .

the only way to breed a correct ER/ER chooks is to have 2 separate line
1) cockerel line so the hens can have a spotted chest and well colored ears tufts . the cockerels from this line will be stunning well colored .First class show bird

2) Pullet line ,where the hens have a Black chest and ears tufts ( they need to have a nice hackle ,very important ).only the rooster is well marked . so all the pullets from this line will fit the standard and will be show bird NOT the Cockerels

Very complicated or they made it complicated .

chooks man

 

[kcrandall]

very good question my friend .
here the catch .
the body color of the chooks is divided into 2 categories .
1) Sex linked colors S/S and S/- or s+/s and s+/- . this genes control the color of the hackle back and lancet on the Coq and the hackle on the hen

2) Autossomal Red or Silver Ar/Ar or ar+/ar+ = this one still a lot debate about it it. is a one gene or a group of them working together Like a Pattern genes need a lot of them to form a pattern not just one gene.
any way what we know about so far . the Autossomal Red/Silver control the color of the chest .ears tufts and the Shoulders on the Coq and Ears tuft,spotted chest on the hen.
on the ER/ER family genetic , the hen to no express the Autossomal colors on they Shoulders .but they do carry the gene/genes . So in this case the Autossomal is behaving like a sex linked . we still have a lot to understand .

So the ER/ER Hen always passes the Sex linked and the Autossomal genes to her sons not her daughters ( they get they colors from they Sire- Rooster-)
all this is a genetic inheritance law BUT NOT THE FRENCH STANDARD . they don t want the the ER/ER hen to have a spotted chest neither colored ears tufts . they only want the Rooster to have them . VERY WEIRD . they made the standard long time ago before they understood genetic law .
it is a main reason why they are always straggling to stable the colors of the BCM .BLCM and Birchen, because they are going again the law of nature .

the only way to breed a correct ER/ER chooks is to have 2 separate line
1) cockerel line so the hens can have a spotted chest and well colored ears tufts . the cockerels from this line will be stunning well colored .First class show bird

2) Pullet line ,where the hens have a Black chest and ears tufts ( they need to have a nice hackle ,very important ).only the rooster is well marked . so all the pullets from this line will fit the standard and will be show bird NOT the Cockerels

Very complicated or they made it complicated .

chooks man

This makes sense to me - I forgot about the sex-linked part of the equation. There are so many variables with the chooks genetics that I can easily confuse myself. Thanks for taking the time to explain it - much appreciated!

I have two pullets (a BCM and BLCM) from my 2017 Spring hatch that have a small amount of copper spotting on their chest. The BLCM pullet had the proper hatch down. I was really liking these pullets type, size, color and eye color before I noticed the copper spots on their chest so if these traits hold true to maturity then I should have a couple of nice pullets to start a cockerel line. I'm excited about the possibilities with these pullets!

Take Care,
Keith

 

[Chooks man]

This makes sense to me - I forgot about the sex-linked part of the equation. There are so many variables with the chooks genetics that I can easily confuse myself. Thanks for taking the time to explain it - much appreciated!

I have two pullets (a BCM and BLCM) from my 2017 Spring hatch that have a small amount of copper spotting on their chest. The BLCM pullet had the proper hatch down. I was really liking these pullets type, size, color and eye color before I noticed the copper spots on their chest so if these traits hold true to maturity then I should have a couple of nice pullets to start a cockerel line. I'm excited about the possibilities with these pullets!

Take Care,
Keith

very good my friend .couple nice pullets better than a tuck load of bad ones .

yes the spotted chest will breed true ,because it is part of the genetic make up .NOT a human mind ( a lot error )

I m doing the same thing .any pullets with a marking on her chest is going to the cockerels breeding pen.
pullets with a only nice hackle will go into a pullets breeding pen .

we have to keep the genetic make up correct and make it work for us by a little manipulation in the breeding pens that all ,NOT breed the important trait out and struggle to breed a nice pullets in the future .

chooks man

 

[Bantambird]

good new .some new chicks .
you need to watch a Cream Legbar rooster . we wont to breed a pure marans ( selective breeding )
you need to make sure your roos are not jumping fences . NOT great for breeding a pure chooks .

photos please .

chooks man

Managed to slip them all under Coco, my chocolate English Orpington. There were 12 total chicks. There's only one that looked like it might have been a different sire, but if so, they will definitely develop barring. Those will be dinners. The rest look good. I doubt I'll get the chance to take any pictures just now, but there were a few with a lot of the parasitic white hatch down, and a few without. Once they are bonded a few days I'll take a better look and get pictures then. Orpingtons make great broodies.

 

[Chooks man]

here some photos o my marans hens with they new plumage .all finished molting and start laying .
they are about 5 weeks away from penning them with they roosters .
all healthy and looking gorgeous .I should have a better result this breeding season .
enjoy

time for some sun flower seed before they go to roost

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

start building a pullets coops .
the first group o 20 pullets need they own grow up pen few of them start laying ,So I need to catch them .
this coop is going to be 8 feet X 4 feet wide and 5 feet high .

it is about one foot out of the ground ,so they can go under it in the bad weather .
I should finish building it by tomorrow ,Hopefully

will be plenty of space for them and grass .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

here a fine example o who the chooks body type is from the mama hen .

my Blue copper hen Burwood in the front of the photo and her son Rockwood ( son of Shamrock )
look at her body type .short on her feet. great angle .small pointed tail . nice long back.

here her son Rockwood. first generation single barred Golden cuckoo ER/ER. s+/s+. B/b+.

he inherited from his mama all the great body traits . he hatched at 65g.
I like his short feet like his mama ,is going to help me breed the tall footed one out .great mass . he is actually heavier than Viking3. 3.8 kg at 6 month old.
great comb too BONUS

chooks man

only problem he has is a parasitic white .

 

[chickengr]

start building a pullets coops .
the first group o 20 pullets need they own grow up pen few of them start laying ,So I need to catch them .
this coop is going to be 8 feet X 4 feet wide and 5 feet high .
View attachment 1050365
View attachment 1050366
it is about one foot out of the ground ,so they can go under it in the bad weather .
I should finish building it by tomorrow ,Hopefully

will be plenty of space for them and grass .

chooks man

waiting to see the pic with pullets in it!

will they have fenced run as well?

 

[chickengr]

here a fine example o who the chooks body type is from the mama hen .

my Blue copper hen Burwood in the front of the photo and her son Rockwood ( son of Shamrock )
look at her body type .short on her feet. great angle .small pointed tail . nice long back.
View attachment 1050370

here her son Rockwood. first generation single barred Golden cuckoo ER/ER. s+/s+. B/b+.
View attachment 1050371
View attachment 1050372 View attachment 1050374
he inherited from his mama all the great body traits . he hatched at 65g.
I like his short feet like his mama ,is going to help me breed the tall footed one out .great mass . he is actually heavier than Viking3. 3.8 kg at 6 month old.
great comb too BONUS

chooks man

only problem he has is a parasitic white .

no one is perfect. your cockerel almost is.

when I got my first marans I thought they had a defect as they had short feet, lol.

my chicks are growing and I wonder if they will end up with some faults. I am worried about their health as my first marans hen was not tough and died at 1 yo. they are already weak. my second batch (5 girls from my friend's eggs) are healthy so far. but they are still confined in the sofa bed brooder. I wonder what will happen when they start walking on soil.