International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[KF0002]

very nice color and sheen .
you see .you have to be passion with a chooks . 20/30 first eggs .no more no less .
she is a breeder in my book for sure . if you think she hasn t got the proper mass ,than breed her later ,so she can pile up some pounds .
because you are working on this line for the dark egg genes ,than gretchen is a breeder for sure . you need every chooks from that line to be safe and not loose any special genes .

breed Gretta s line for just the egg color .they are gorgeous and you are not going to regret it in the future .all your chooks are an asset to you .be wise in who you use them .
don t cull any thing yet ,multiply and keep all the genes possible tell you have a large number of chooks to select from and form many line to fix the problems .
we need to restore and fix before we start culling .culling is for the one they have a tone of chooks or the one s they luck the know how or they just they thing the show judges are going to walk in they yard .

create lines first and work within the line .it is more efficient and a proper way to do it .
we can not breed any thing true with out crossing the lines/strain .
line breeding is very important to maintain a healthy and high quality flock .

chooks man

I may have to sell a kidney to feed all these chooks.

As always thank you for your sound advice. I appreciate your coaching and knowledge.

 

[Red Banks]

I am very hard on my birds, this is not new.

Gretchen actually laid again today. A normal shaped egg this time. It is a lovely deep russet shade and is very much like her mother's. So she stays in the breeding pen despite my nitpickiness and neurotic OCD mind.

I am recording egg size and color on the pullets I have up to breed. Gretchen's first egg (the long one) was only 55 grams even though it looked bigger. The egg she laid today was 58 grams.

View attachment 1204284
View attachment 1204283

Very nice egg.

 

[Chooks man]

I may have to sell a kidney to feed all these chooks.

As always thank you for your sound advice. I appreciate your coaching and knowledge.

you need to find a market for all you culls .

for me my breeders stock will eat one Dz fertile eggs worth a week .$120 . this year I released 100 Dz limited number .more money than I need .

for the little one ,I already start to market them up before I hatch them . sold 100 cockerel .fully prepare to cock for my Chinese friend . another 100 to my Persian friend .selling them for $40 a chooks ( 2.3/2.6Kg of carcass) at 5and half months old .
1000 cockerels/pullet at 2 Kg carcass 5 months old for the Restaurent .
plus I need 100 trio all varieties to sale as breeders .this year a lot peoples are not happy with me because I did not sale any of stock . they have to wait one more year .

marans chooks in Oz are good money . they really pay they ways out .

hope you can find ways to let them at lease feed them selves .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

Hi every body .just finished working on by breeders pens for the 2018 breeding season Part one .
I m going to start penning all my breeders recording to the new order in 2 weeks times .

here the list of all breeders pens and the varieties I m going to work with .
BC= Massai Mara = F1 BC pullets 5 .one year old
Wheaten = Morgan3 = Wheaten hens 5
Golden cuckoo = Ugly Hippo F1 Golden/Silver cuckoo = BC hens 4 .
Silver cuckoo = Charlie3 = Silver cuckoo hens his grand mama and aunt 2
Birchen = One eye F1 Dark cuckoo = Birchen pullets half sisters 5
CLB = Gauloise Cockerel = CLB hens 3 mama and 2 Aunts
CLB = Shakespeare = CLB pullet his daughters 4
Dominant White = White Dragon = Splash/dominant white pullets .half sisters 5 and his mama
Dominant white = Spotted Rhino = Dominant white and BL copper hens 4
Split White = Behemoth ( large creature ) F1 Split white pullets sisters/half sisters 8.
Black tail buff = Red Storm Buff pullets .half sister/sisters 4.
Golden Salmon = K2 = Salmon pullets 2 half sisters.
Columbian = Saharacas golden /silver cuckoo= f1 cuckoo pullets ,half sisters 5
Columbian = Gavroche F1 Golden /silver cuckoo = F1 cuckoo pullets 5.
Cuckoo splash silver based = Charlie the Blue F1 Golden/silver Blue cuckoo = 3 F1 Blue cuckoo sisters .

Total of 65 hens/pullets and 15 cockerels/roosters for the first round 2 months .a lot eggs and a lot chicks too .all my clients are going to be happy .guaranty .

after 2 months I ll change the cockerels .
I have 4 set of cockerels to rotate .
I have more pullets too .but I m not going to use them . I selected the Cream de la Cream to breed from .

chooks man

PS from tomorrow I m going to give my breeders Vitamins B Complex and Kelp in they ration .

 

[KF0002]

@Chooks man I just noticed one of my LA pullets I am growing out has some odd webbing between her toes. There is webbing between the middle toe and outer toe on both feet. This is a serious defect and disqualification among show birds but how hard of an impact is it genetically in regard to their use as breeding stock? Is it something I should cull now? I don't want to use chickens with genetic defects for breeding to carry forward. What are your thoughts on this? I drew a picture of what I'm talking about on my laptop because after I saw the pullet and went inside to get my phone, I couldn't find her again when I came back out. I will look for her again when I feed and grab a pic. She is the only bird I have produced that has shown this defect.

Here is some information I found on BYC posted on another forum.

"Syndactyly is a condition in which the third and fourth toes are fused, usually by continuous webbing between the toes (Figure 6.6). The extent of webbing varies distally and between toes. In extreme cases the toes are tightly tied together, and the nail of the fourth toe may be bent out of its median position making walking difficult. The condition is usually expressed in both feet. Syndactyly has been associated with both ptilopody and brachydactyly by several workers (Davenport, 1909; Danforth, 1919a, 1919b; Jaap, 1939). They proposed that the same gene was responsible for all three of these conditions and that modifying genes and genetic background determine the phenotype of each individual. Davenport's (1909) data showed syndactyly to be dominant. This would be expected if one of the dominant shank feathering genes were responsible for it. Danforth (1929) suggested that both of the dominant shank feathering genes were able to produce syndactyly. A relationship between these two traits was further strengthened with the appearance of the single gene multitrait mutant psp reported by McGibbon and Shackelford (192) and Smyth (1981) in which syndactyly and ptilopody were shown to be caused by the same recessive gene.

There probably is more than one genetic type of syndactyly. Two studies have been made of this trait in clean-legged stock, where ptilopody genes could not be involved. One study used White Plymouth Rocks (Warren, 1950) and the other one involved junglefowl stock (Hollander and Brumbaugh, 1969). In both cases, results from crosses were difficult to interpret. Warren (1950) found that the normal parent had a major influence on F1 progeny; he got only 1.8 percent syndactylism in one group of F1 crosses but 41 percent in another, syndactyl x syndactyl crosses produced 62 percent affected progeny, and there were only 11.9 percent affected in the F2 generation. The comparable results from Hollander and Brumbaugh (1969) were zero, 40 and one percent affected birds. Although Warren (1950) had somewhat more affected individuals, these two groups may well have been working with the same genetic complex. Hollander and Brumbaugh (1969) proposed complementary gene action of a dominant and a recessive factor along with variable penetrance and expressivity. Warren (1950) did not suggest a mode of inheritance, but said that there was no evidence of sex-linkage."

pp. 201-202, Poultry Breeding and Genetics -- Roy D. Crawford, Elsevier, 1990.

 

[KF0002]

Hi every body .just finished working on by breeders pens for the 2018 breeding season Part one .
I m going to start penning all my breeders recording to the new order in 2 weeks times .

here the list of all breeders pens and the varieties I m going to work with .
BC= Massai Mara = F1 BC pullets 5 .one year old
Wheaten = Morgan3 = Wheaten hens 5
Golden cuckoo = Ugly Hippo F1 Golden/Silver cuckoo = BC hens 4 .
Silver cuckoo = Charlie3 = Silver cuckoo hens his grand mama and aunt 2
Birchen = One eye F1 Dark cuckoo = Birchen pullets half sisters 5
CLB = Gauloise Cockerel = CLB hens 3 mama and 2 Aunts
CLB = Shakespeare = CLB pullet his daughters 4
Dominant White = White Dragon = Splash/dominant white pullets .half sisters 5 and his mama
Dominant white = Spotted Rhino = Dominant white and BL copper hens 4
Split White = Behemoth ( large creature ) F1 Split white pullets sisters/half sisters 8.
Black tail buff = Red Storm Buff pullets .half sister/sisters 4.
Golden Salmon = K2 = Salmon pullets 2 half sisters.
Columbian = Saharacas golden /silver cuckoo= f1 cuckoo pullets ,half sisters 5
Columbian = Gavroche F1 Golden /silver cuckoo = F1 cuckoo pullets 5.
Cuckoo splash silver based = Charlie the Blue F1 Golden/silver Blue cuckoo = 3 F1 Blue cuckoo sisters .

Total of 65 hens/pullets and 15 cockerels/roosters for the first round 2 months .a lot eggs and a lot chicks too .all my clients are going to be happy .guaranty .

after 2 months I ll change the cockerels .
I have 4 set of cockerels to rotate .
I have more pullets too .but I m not going to use them . I selected the Cream de la Cream to breed from .

chooks man

PS from tomorrow I m going to give my breeders Vitamins B Complex and Kelp in they ration .

Sounds amazing! I only wish I had so many breeding pens to devote to that many color varieties of Marans. lol

Vitamin B complex is very good to supplement in your birds. In individual birds we use Aminoplex, and in numerous birds we supplement with Red Cell or beef liver. It is great during the molt. It keeps their heads nice and cherry red. I need to grab some kale for my breeders.

 

[KF0002]

you need to find a market for all you culls .

for me my breeders stock will eat one Dz fertile eggs worth a week .$120 . this year I released 100 Dz limited number .more money than I need .

for the little one ,I already start to market them up before I hatch them . sold 100 cockerel .fully prepare to cock for my Chinese friend . another 100 to my Persian friend .selling them for $40 a chooks ( 2.3/2.6Kg of carcass) at 5and half months old .
1000 cockerels/pullet at 2 Kg carcass 5 months old for the Restaurent .
plus I need 100 trio all varieties to sale as breeders .this year a lot peoples are not happy with me because I did not sale any of stock . they have to wait one more year .

marans chooks in Oz are good money . they really pay they ways out .

hope you can find ways to let them at lease feed them selves .

chooks man

All of my cull cockerels will go into the freezer and any cull pullets or hens I have can be used or sold as layers. I am also going to offer Olive Egger chicks and/or hatching eggs to people as I've had a lot of requests for them. I gave a friend of mine two of my autosexing Olive Egger pullets when she bought the last of my Sussex birds. Since then through word of mouth I have had tons of people contact me to inquire about them. As far as I know there isn't anyone else in my area that offers Olive Eggers so I think that would be a good way for my birds to earn their keep.

 

[KF0002]

Day 20 and 3 BCM chicks hatched . those are F2 .Sire Tobambezi over his half sisters . working on the same line ( line breeding),all the eggs look good to me when I moved them to the hatcher 47 egg .not all BC .

will take photos tomorrow .

chooks man

Can't wait to see pics of your BCM chicks! I am going through chick withdrawal.

 

[Chooks man]

@Chooks man I just noticed one of my LA pullets I am growing out has some odd webbing between her toes. There is webbing between the middle toe and outer toe on both feet. This is a serious defect and disqualification among show birds but how hard of an impact is it genetically in regard to their use as breeding stock? Is it something I should cull now? I don't want to use chickens with genetic defects for breeding to carry forward. What are your thoughts on this? I drew a picture of what I'm talking about on my laptop because after I saw the pullet and went inside to get my phone, I couldn't find her again when I came back out. I will look for her again when I feed and grab a pic. She is the only bird I have produced that has shown this defect.

View attachment 1204691

Here is some information I found on BYC posted on another forum.

"Syndactyly is a condition in which the third and fourth toes are fused, usually by continuous webbing between the toes (Figure 6.6). The extent of webbing varies distally and between toes. In extreme cases the toes are tightly tied together, and the nail of the fourth toe may be bent out of its median position making walking difficult. The condition is usually expressed in both feet. Syndactyly has been associated with both ptilopody and brachydactyly by several workers (Davenport, 1909; Danforth, 1919a, 1919b; Jaap, 1939). They proposed that the same gene was responsible for all three of these conditions and that modifying genes and genetic background determine the phenotype of each individual. Davenport's (1909) data showed syndactyly to be dominant. This would be expected if one of the dominant shank feathering genes were responsible for it. Danforth (1929) suggested that both of the dominant shank feathering genes were able to produce syndactyly. A relationship between these two traits was further strengthened with the appearance of the single gene multitrait mutant psp reported by McGibbon and Shackelford (192) and Smyth (1981) in which syndactyly and ptilopody were shown to be caused by the same recessive gene.

There probably is more than one genetic type of syndactyly. Two studies have been made of this trait in clean-legged stock, where ptilopody genes could not be involved. One study used White Plymouth Rocks (Warren, 1950) and the other one involved junglefowl stock (Hollander and Brumbaugh, 1969). In both cases, results from crosses were difficult to interpret. Warren (1950) found that the normal parent had a major influence on F1 progeny; he got only 1.8 percent syndactylism in one group of F1 crosses but 41 percent in another, syndactyl x syndactyl crosses produced 62 percent affected progeny, and there were only 11.9 percent affected in the F2 generation. The comparable results from Hollander and Brumbaugh (1969) were zero, 40 and one percent affected birds. Although Warren (1950) had somewhat more affected individuals, these two groups may well have been working with the same genetic complex. Hollander and Brumbaugh (1969) proposed complementary gene action of a dominant and a recessive factor along with variable penetrance and expressivity. Warren (1950) did not suggest a mode of inheritance, but said that there was no evidence of sex-linkage."

pp. 201-202, Poultry Breeding and Genetics -- Roy D. Crawford, Elsevier, 1990.

thank you for posting this information .

she is a cull my dear friend .
some thing I never work with is a physical deformity . nightmare to breed out in the future .
crippled toes.
X leg
crooked Beak
Hump on the back
Flopped comb on the rooster
Blindness

there is more .
any chooks with a physical deformity is a cull .very simple .

chooks man

 

[KF0002]

Here is pics of my pullet with syndactyly. It is present on both feet.