is corn as main ingredient good for chickens?

[Organics North]

Quote:
I'm not too sure about that statement. I love corn. Just had some frozen sweet corn (picked fresh and frozen myself) about a 1/2 hour ago (actually had to do the dishes tonight

) I bet you don't want to see a pic of my "highly digestible" corn when I get ready for work in the morning

I obviously don't digest it well....

Carbs have made me "plump". I don't think I am fat, but when I jumped on that No Carb diet kick a few years ago, I dropped alot of my fat.

You are not alone...Terramycin is a drug/antibiotic approved for Cattle,Swine,Sheep,Poultry and fish! Apparently they all have problems with corn too.... But if you give them drugs/antibotics such as Terramycin it helps them with feed conversion and weight gain....

Jim is anything added to help with feed conversion in poultry feed for the back yard flock owner? (I see lots of ingredients with "fancy scientific" sounding words... I am just wondering if any of those are the class of antibotic that is used for feed conversion..????

ON

 

[spartacus_63]

ON, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, but until you really figure out what the "mad" scientists are doing with genetics, it is my opinion that you are blustering about nothing. If you prefer to eat only heirloom and organic, I see nothing wrong about that. I also see nothing wrong with feeding grain that has been proven to be safe for all consumption to anything that wants to eat it. I will promise not to regulate or demean what you eat or feed your birds. All I ask is that the same is done for me. Personal choices should be left to the individual. I invite information exchange, but I try to stop short of judging others on their choices. BTW, hybrid seeds have been around since the 1920s and you can still get hybrids seeds from seed companies. Most sweet corn is a hybrid.

It really is pointless to try to explain how the modifications work in plants, because someone will disagree and it will go on and on. I will make an attempt at explaining a very simple example. In chicken breeding it has been determined that certain parts of the DNA or genetics are responsible for specific traits in birds. Science has found that some genes are non functioning, layovers from evolution. If you determine what genes affect color and you could modify that gene to produce the color you were looking for, it wouldn't effect size, type or productions. A similar process has been developed in plants. Science has determined what aids crops in tolerating drought, bugs and disease. It does not effect color or flavor. In some cases they use native genes or genes from another plant and sometimes they eliminate genes. It has been shown that it does not transfer into nutrient value. Although there are some foods that they modify to increase nutrient content, it is a process of growth enhancement not adding vitamins at the DNA level.

As for antibiotics, I am no expert, but when I was involved with cattle, antibiotics were fed to calves to enhance growth. Not to deter infection or for having anything to do with any effect from grazing or eating grain. In case anyone is wondering, Maize (AKA corn) is from the grass family. Grass produces grain (aka seeds). Cows been eatin' it for centuries and some how they have not only survived, they have thrived.

 

[CARS]

Here's the pics:

Just kidding, but you all knew what i was getting at.

the answer to anything is a well balanced diet and exercise. We all know that. Don't we??? Can you expect anything less from our birds???? Why am I chubby?? Well, I just returned from the bar. Yes! I had a grain based drink. Corn, wheat, soy, I think... who cares..... moderation.

Can I ask you anti corn/soy people something? What do you live on??? Organic???? are you serious, it's a overpriced gimmick. It's still corn and soy. The same pic you don't want to see.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
If a feed, any feed, has an antibiotic the tag will clearly read "Medicated". The tag will have the drug and the reason for the drug. There are three reasons to use antibiotics:

Improvement in growth or feed conversion (aka Growth Promotion)
Prevention of Disease
Treatment of Disease

The use of Growth Promotional levels of medicine has greatly reduced in the past two decades. When I first started raising livestockin the 1980's EVERY ponld of feed I purchased contained a medicine, that was the standard practice. Now I only use medicines in feed at specific times for the prevention of disease or in the case of a disease outbreak. This is the same thing that happens on othe commercial livestock operations.

I fully expect the use of Growth Promotion levels of medicine to be illegal in the next decade. While it will make headlines, the impact on livestock production will be virtually ZERO since those level are simply not used in commercial operations.

As to improvements in feed conversion, there are many things added to feed to improve feed conversion. In the poultry feeds I formulate I use a product that contains botanical extracts of several plants to help with feed conversion.

 

[Organics North]

Thanks Jim.. Interesting..

I was reading a study on sheep that compared an antibiotic for feed conversion to active yeast. The yeast performed better in the study.. I agree, I think we are starting to get a better handle on tools to help with feed conversion and will move away from drugs to do so.

ON

Oh.. Spart..
I hear you...

To each their own.. Did you read where I said Hybrids can and are certified organic.. Just not GMO's done in the lab. Organic does not mean only heirloom or OP..

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
I disagree with the gimmick thing....

However....
We do not eat all organic some purchased organic but not all..Mostly local/natural where I know exactly what went into the product. (Like my beef and milk) Or wild caught fish and game or home grown foods, which are raised organically.

We do a pretty good job of avoiding corn and soy byproducts at the grocery, no soda, no beef, pork, chicken, few processed foods. For breads, tortillas and certain other things we stock up when we make a trip to a big city with a Trader Joes... (Lots of their stuff is corn and soy byproducts free and the price is dirt cheap compared to our local prices.)

Simply put we cook from scratch.. It is the processed foods that are the worst with corn and soy byproducts added... Even though I was floored when I looked at the can of water packed Tuna and it contains SOY.....

I spend way too much time reading labels at the store.. Often times generic or store brand items do not contain corn or soy byproducts, where the name brand products do.

We have a very tight budget, and feed a family of 4 with two growing boys GMO corn and soy byproducts free on about $75 a week for grocery store items. Most of the food is obtained in alternative ways..

ON

 

[spartacus_63]

Did you read where I said Hybrids can and are certified organic.. Just not GMO's done in the lab. Organic does not mean only heirloom or OP..

Absolutely. And hybrid seeds do not have to be open pollinated. Lots of seeds/plants are bred in a "lab". Even most of the fruit trees are hybrids. Talk about Frankin Foods. Take the root/trunk of one specimen and graft it to the stem/trunk of another and these are often branded organic. Try growing a pear tree from a seed and see what pops up.​

 

[Amyable]

Quote:
Absolutely. And hybrid seeds do not have to be open pollinated. Lots of seeds/plants are bred in a "lab". Even most of the fruit trees are hybrids. Talk about Frankin Foods. Take the root/trunk of one specimen and graft it to the stem/trunk of another and these are often branded organic. Try growing a pear tree from a seed and see what pops up.

Hybrids and grafting are not GMO. Neither is plant breeding. GMO refers to organisms altered at the microscopic gene level. I just read about Golden Rice, a GMO rice. Scientists inserted "the phytoene synthase (psy) gene from daffodil and the carotene desaturase (crtI) gene from the bacterium Erwinia uredovora" (from the goldenrice.org website). Bacteria genes in rice? This kind of life modification is unprecedented. Forgive some of us for having reservations.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Absolutely. And hybrid seeds do not have to be open pollinated. Lots of seeds/plants are bred in a "lab". Even most of the fruit trees are hybrids. Talk about Frankin Foods. Take the root/trunk of one specimen and graft it to the stem/trunk of another and these are often branded organic. Try growing a pear tree from a seed and see what pops up.

Hybrids and grafting are not GMO. Neither is plant breeding. GMO refers to organisms altered at the microscopic gene level. I just read about Golden Rice, a GMO rice. Scientists inserted "the phytoene synthase (psy) gene from daffodil and the carotene desaturase (crtI) gene from the bacterium Erwinia uredovora" (from the goldenrice.org website). Bacteria genes in rice? This kind of life modification is unprecedented. Forgive some of us for having reservations.

My grafted plant is not going to alter the plant next to it..

Plain and simple many people here oppose GMO specifically. Not grafting or hybrids.. Dozens of countries have banned GMO's not grafts or hybrids..... HUGE difference.

ON

 

[spartacus_63]

Hybrids and grafting are not GMO. Neither is plant breeding. GMO refers to organisms altered at the microscopic gene level. I just read about Golden Rice, a GMO rice. Scientists inserted "the phytoene synthase (psy) gene from daffodil and the carotene desaturase (crtI) gene from the bacterium Erwinia uredovora" (from the goldenrice.org website). Bacteria genes in rice? This kind of life modification is unprecedented. Forgive some of us for having reservations.

Amyable, there is certainly nothing you need forgiveness for here. I am not advocating any food, to each there own.

If grafting and cross breeding plants is not genetic modification, then why doesn't it happen in nature? The genes of the fruit have been modified from it's parents and most will not bear the same fruit when planted from a grafted tree. Golden rice is a good example of how man can increase the nutrient value of food and better our lives. Not everyone has the luxury of producing "organic" food. There are lots of folks in this world that do not get enough to eat. Geneomics allows farmers to grow food with less output and more yield. It also reduces the amount of chemical fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides that need to be applied to reach a marketable yield. It also reduces the amount of chemical that may seep into the ground water and it also reduces the effects on the soil.

Science is a good thing when applied for good use.​