is corn as main ingredient good for chickens?

[BitsyB]

Quote:
Sounds like your chickens get quite a variety of food in addition to their corn- it's most likely the grasses, bugs and other scraps that help create those beautiful deep orange yolks! If it was the corn, then the store bought (and mostly corn-fed) chickens' eggs would have orange yolks and not those pale yellow ones.

I also offer cracked corn to my girls, along with lots of other different foods. Bits of deer meat, wheat grass, birdseed, greens, and worms from my husband's "vermiculture" bins in the basement are all eagerly eaten in the winter months. I think chickens instinctively know what they need to eat. And like yours, mine always have the deep orange yolks- a sign of nutritious eggs.


"As Pennsylvania State University shows, researchers recently found eggs raised on pasture are much more nutritious than eggs from their caged counterparts. Not to mention the higher risk of Salmonella contamination in eggs from hens kept in cages.

THE DETAILS: Penn State's study, published recently in the journal Renewable Agriculture and Food Systems found that pastured hens—ones kept outside on different pastures where they can exhibit natural behavior and forage for bugs and grasses—boasted higher vitamin and omega-3 fatty acid levels when compared to their commercially fed, battery-cage-kept counterparts. Eggs from pastured hens contained twice as much vitamin E and 2.5 times more total omega-3 fatty acids as the eggs from caged birds contained. "

http://www.rodale.com/healthy-eggs?page=0,0&cm_mmc=DailyNewsNL-_-2010_04_20-_-Top5-_-NA

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
In horticulture, hybrid is referring to the offspring of sexual reproduction.
Since a hybrid plant in the field of horticulture has to be the offspring of sexual reproduction (pollination) that would leave out Grafting, Budding and cloning.
I have done my fare share of Grafting, Budding, and Cloning plants and there is no pollination involved.

Chris

I'm not sure where you got your definition of hybrid, but where I am, reproduction in plants is not limited to sexual, it is a mater of propagation. A hybrid plant is a plant that crosses two genetically different plants. Although a graft technically joins to differing plants, the results are the same. A simple example of hybrids through grafting are Hybrid Tea Roses.

I too have grafted a few plants from time to time and the goal was to make a plant fit into a specific need. Dwarfing, climate tolerance, insect tolerance or even pollination enhancement. You could also graft for specialties like the pomato. These in my mind and by the definition I go by certainly fall into the hybrid category.

Quote:
Most any good horticulture book will tell you that a hybrid is the offspring of sexual reproduction (pollination).

Quote:
Hybrid Tea is a cultivar group of roses, created by cross-breeding two different types of roses.
Hybrid teas exhibit traits midway between both parents: hardier than the teas but less hardy than the hybrid perpetuals, and less ever-blooming than the hybrid perpetuals but more so than the teas.
It was raised by Jean-Baptiste Guillot, a French nurseryman. He did it by hybridising a Tea rose, "Madame Bravy" with a Hybrid Perpetual, "Madame Victor Verdier" hence hybrid tea.
Yes the Hybrid Tea is Propagated by budding, that involves grafting buds from a parent plant onto strongly growing rootstocks.
But the "Hybrid" part of a Hybrid Tea comes from cross-breeding and has nothing to do with the Budding or Grafting.


Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

Quote:
I'm not sure where you got your definition of hybrid, but where I am, reproduction in plants is not limited to sexual, it is a mater of propagation. A hybrid plant is a plant that crosses two genetically different plants. Although a graft technically joins to differing plants, the results are the same. A simple example of hybrids through grafting are Hybrid Tea Roses.

I too have grafted a few plants from time to time and the goal was to make a plant fit into a specific need. Dwarfing, climate tolerance, insect tolerance or even pollination enhancement. You could also graft for specialties like the pomato. These in my mind and by the definition I go by certainly fall into the hybrid category.

Quote:
Most any good horticulture book will tell you that a hybrid is the offspring of sexual reproduction (pollination).

Quote:
Hybrid Tea is a cultivar group of roses, created by cross-breeding two different types of roses.
Hybrid teas exhibit traits midway between both parents: hardier than the teas but less hardy than the hybrid perpetuals, and less ever-blooming than the hybrid perpetuals but more so than the teas.
It was raised by Jean-Baptiste Guillot, a French nurseryman. He did it by hybridising a Tea rose, "Madame Bravy" with a Hybrid Perpetual, "Madame Victor Verdier" hence hybrid tea.
Yes the Hybrid Tea is Propagated by budding, that involves grafting buds from a parent plant onto strongly growing rootstocks.
But the "Hybrid" part of a Hybrid Tea comes from cross-breeding and has nothing to do with the Budding or Grafting.


Chris

And how are the hybrid teas propagated? Through grafting. Even if you pollinate and collect seeds from the hybrids, your not going to get the parent stock if you get anything at all.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
We will see what Chris has to say..
However, my thinking/understanding is as with most hybrid crosses (Pollination/sexual reproduction between different subfamily of plants within the same family.) has results that still have a bit of variation.

So sure hybrid teas could be reproduced through pollination, however it is easier and with a more reliable outcome to reproduce via cuttings/cloning. The grafting to a "stronger" rootstock has nothing to do with the hybrid aspect.

At least that is my understanding..

ON

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Sounds like your chickens get quite a variety of food in addition to their corn- it's most likely the grasses, bugs and other scraps that help create those beautiful deep orange yolks! If it was the corn, then the store bought (and mostly corn-fed) chickens' eggs would have orange yolks and not those pale yellow ones.

I also offer cracked corn to my girls, along with lots of other different foods. Bits of deer meat, wheat grass, birdseed, greens, and worms from my husband's "vermiculture" bins in the basement are all eagerly eaten in the winter months. I think chickens instinctively know what they need to eat. And like yours, mine always have the deep orange yolks- a sign of nutritious eggs.


"As Pennsylvania State University shows, researchers recently found eggs raised on pasture are much more nutritious than eggs from their caged counterparts. Not to mention the higher risk of Salmonella contamination in eggs from hens kept in cages.

THE DETAILS: Penn State's study, published recently in the journal Renewable Agriculture and Food Systems found that pastured hens—ones kept outside on different pastures where they can exhibit natural behavior and forage for bugs and grasses—boasted higher vitamin and omega-3 fatty acid levels when compared to their commercially fed, battery-cage-kept counterparts. Eggs from pastured hens contained twice as much vitamin E and 2.5 times more total omega-3 fatty acids as the eggs from caged birds contained. "

http://www.rodale.com/healthy-eggs?page=0,0&cm_mmc=DailyNewsNL-_-2010_04_20-_-Top5-_-NA

Mother Earth News did that study back in 2005 and again in 2007.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/2007-10-01/Tests-Reveal-Healthier-Eggs.aspx

It will be interesting to compare the two!

OK corn and yellow yolks...........................................!!
I have heard that but I personally do not believe it... To me it seems greens make yolks yellow... Lots of grass, hay, and so forth. Same goes for the fat on a steer. A pure grass fed steer will have yellowish fat, where a corn fed one has whitish fat.

Yes? No?
Anyone?

ON

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Quote:
Most any good horticulture book will tell you that a hybrid is the offspring of sexual reproduction (pollination).

Quote:
Hybrid Tea is a cultivar group of roses, created by cross-breeding two different types of roses.
Hybrid teas exhibit traits midway between both parents: hardier than the teas but less hardy than the hybrid perpetuals, and less ever-blooming than the hybrid perpetuals but more so than the teas.
It was raised by Jean-Baptiste Guillot, a French nurseryman. He did it by hybridising a Tea rose, "Madame Bravy" with a Hybrid Perpetual, "Madame Victor Verdier" hence hybrid tea.
Yes the Hybrid Tea is Propagated by budding, that involves grafting buds from a parent plant onto strongly growing rootstocks.
But the "Hybrid" part of a Hybrid Tea comes from cross-breeding and has nothing to do with the Budding or Grafting.


Chris

And how are the hybrid teas propagated? Through grafting. Even if you pollinate and collect seeds from the hybrids, your not going to get the parent stock if you get anything at all.

Some are by propagated by grafting and some are propagated by cross pollination and then grafted to rootstock but as I said before grafting has nothing to do with weather it is a hybrid or not.
Nearly all Roses are grafted for one reason or another but not all Roses are a hybrid. Lets take the "Old Fashion" Roses or "Heirloom" Roses most if not all are not considered a hybrid, but most all of them are grafted to rootstock.
Now you can look at it the same way with tomatoes, if you would graft a Brandywine a non-hybrid open pollinated tomato to a Cherokee Purple another non-hybrid open pollinated tomato the outcome is not a hybrid it is a grafted tomato because neither parent stock was a hybrid.
Now lets take a Cobra TMV-VF2C5 a hybrid tomato and graft it to the same Cherokee Purple rootstock, the outcome is now a hybrid grafted tomato.

I don't know how much experience you have in horticulture (other than maybe a backyard garden) but there are some good book on this subject (grafting, budding, cloning and cuttings) that are worth the time to read. I would suggest that unless you are dedicated to the field that you get them at the library because most are in the 40.00 - 90.00+ range.

Chris

 

[primal woman]

Quote:
Sounds like your chickens get quite a variety of food in addition to their corn- it's most likely the grasses, bugs and other scraps that help create those beautiful deep orange yolks! If it was the corn, then the store bought (and mostly corn-fed) chickens' eggs would have orange yolks and not those pale yellow ones.

I also offer cracked corn to my girls, along with lots of other different foods. Bits of deer meat, wheat grass, birdseed, greens, and worms from my husband's "vermiculture" bins in the basement are all eagerly eaten in the winter months. I think chickens instinctively know what they need to eat. And like yours, mine always have the deep orange yolks- a sign of nutritious eggs.


"As Pennsylvania State University shows, researchers recently found eggs raised on pasture are much more nutritious than eggs from their caged counterparts. Not to mention the higher risk of Salmonella contamination in eggs from hens kept in cages.

THE DETAILS: Penn State's study, published recently in the journal Renewable Agriculture and Food Systems found that pastured hens—ones kept outside on different pastures where they can exhibit natural behavior and forage for bugs and grasses—boasted higher vitamin and omega-3 fatty acid levels when compared to their commercially fed, battery-cage-kept counterparts. Eggs from pastured hens contained twice as much vitamin E and 2.5 times more total omega-3 fatty acids as the eggs from caged birds contained. "

http://www.rodale.com/healthy-eggs?page=0,0&cm_mmc=DailyNewsNL-_-2010_04_20-_-Top5-_-NA

Mother Earth News did that study back in 2005 and again in 2007.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/2007-10-01/Tests-Reveal-Healthier-Eggs.aspx

It will be interesting to compare the two!

OK corn and yellow yolks...........................................!!
I have heard that but I personally do not believe it... To me it seems greens make yolks yellow... Lots of grass, hay, and so forth. Same goes for the fat on a steer. A pure grass fed steer will have yellowish fat, where a corn fed one has whitish fat.

Yes? No?
Anyone?

ON

Pick me...I'll do it, I'll do it. A ...Uum...clears throat....."Yes, I agree 100% that greens and etc make the yellow/gold yolks, NOT the corn." Phew. I mostly sit back and listen and silently disagree

, but I just HAD to do that one! And to expound on the topic a bit, it is the overall free ranging of grass and bugs and all they can find which RAISES their protein that helps so very much. But definitely not the corn.

Since I am here: how in the heck do you guys get more than one post quoted into your one posting that you currently write? Make sense? More than one posting is quoted into one posting that you currently write. I have searched the FAQ etc, but can't find it. I know...OT..ha...new word! shy smile.


Also since I am here and well off topic from 'is corn good for my chickens', but since we are talking hybrids: I have seen many posts saying a cross of this chicken and that chicken is a hybrid and won't breed true. I just have to ask: Breed true to WHAT? So you have a meaty chicken, breed it to another breed of meaty chicken: the offspring will still likely be meaty...right? Of course you won't have purebred chicks, but the propensity can be passed down to be meaty, slender, high volume egg layer, etc. Sans of course dominant and recessive gene traits. But are meat and egg producing a dominant or recessive gene? I think I have mostly heard this about breeding a golden sex link to a golden sex link to be more specific, but since golden sex links are good egg layers, can't they throw chicks that have a propensity to be a good egg layer?

Sure hope I did not open a can of worms. But if I did..I want them....for my chicken.

(Did you know that chicken is plural for chick? Oxen is plural for Ox. So we have chicken, I guess we really don't have chickens. HA)

 

[spartacus_63]

Also since I am here and well off topic from 'is corn good for my chickens', but since we are talking hybrids: I have seen many posts saying a cross of this chicken and that chicken is a hybrid and won't breed true. I just have to ask: Breed true to WHAT? So you have a meaty chicken, breed it to another breed of meaty chicken: the offspring will still likely be meaty...right? Of course you won't have purebred chicks, but the propensity can be passed down to be meaty, slender, high volume egg layer, etc. Sans of course dominant and recessive gene traits. But are meat and egg producing a dominant or recessive gene? I think I have mostly heard this about breeding a golden sex link to a golden sex link to be more specific, but since golden sex links are good egg layers, can't they throw chicks that have a propensity to be a good egg layer?

As I understand cross or hybrid breeding, if you start with two pure breeds and cross them, the offspring would be a hybrid and most likely that offspring would be good meat birds. But as genetics go, there is no certainty of that. Now if you breed the hybrid offspring with another hybrid meat bird, the offspring from that cross will show diminished traits from the parent stock. If you breed your hybrid offspring to another pure bred meat bird, you will most likely get a decent meat bird but the likely hood diminishes with every generation.

This gets complicated and there are so many variables, and the fact that there are no absolutes in breeding, there is no concise answer.

I was once told by a biologist who worked in breeding that if left to nature and man were removed from the process, most animals would return to their near original traits/genetic map in as early as five generations. Has to do with natural selection. I do not know if it is a fact or a theory but I think it would be a nice experiment.​

 

[spartacus_63]

I don't know how much experience you have in horticulture (other than maybe a backyard garden) but there are some good book on this subject (grafting, budding, cloning and cuttings) that are worth the time to read. I would suggest that unless you are dedicated to the field that you get them at the library because most are in the 40.00 - 90.00+ range.

I have plenty of experience in varied climates on planting and harvesting many varieties of crop and garden plants. My current focus is on fruit trees and is in it's third season. Nothing on the professional level and my tendencies lean towards self sufficiency with a dose of common sense. Most of my reading material comes from my university extension department which can be obtained online in most cases.

To your heirloom roses, again it depends on what definition you go by on heirloom. My belief is that an heirloom is a non-hybrid cultivar that can reproduce through open pollination and maintain it's specific characteristics. I also am of the belief that new heirloom plants could be produced under the right circumstances

Since we are way off topic and we seem to have widely different interpretations on the word hybrid, I will just say that it is my belief that anytime you combine two different mechanisms/organisms and produce a desired effect you have created a hybrid. That is not to say that you have hybridized anything.

Good luck on cross pollinating those hybrid roses.​

 

[Chris09]

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When I posted -
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Refer back to my previous post were I posted -
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Chris