is corn as main ingredient good for chickens?

[Teach97]

as far as the "greens" making stuff yellow....

that comes from the fact that the pigments in plants that make photosynthesis absorb the yellos, oranges, and such light spectrums...the greens are reflected and that is what we see. The pigments are then passed on and gives us the dark orange color most of us prefer to see in eggs...

 

[Ridgerunner]

I am not a professional biologist. Biology was not a strength of mine in high school, so don't take this as absolute gospel. I'll just throw out my opinion in the hopes I get corrected and learn something, or maybe in a positive way add to this conversation.

If we were talking one gene, then this discussion of hybrid would be a bit different. We are not talking about one gene. These complex organisms are made up of many different genes and they interact with each other differently. For example, if a breeder crosses two purebred chickens, the offspring will not all be identical. There will be enough variation in the offspring that the breeder can cull some and select other to continue with the breeding program. If the breeder does not select carefully the quality of his stock will go down. This is not just for show qualities, but also true for egg laying ability, for example. There are just too many different genes in play.

If you cross two different breeds of purebred chickens, you can be real sure of what colors and patterns you are going to get. But you can get small variations in colors and patterns even between siblings. You can get quite a bit of variation in adult size and conformation. You'll have a pretty good idea of what you will get, but there will be variations. There are just too many different genes in play.

If you cross two crosses, there are many different possibilities in color and pattern, partly because different genes react differently when they are present depending what else is present. These color and pattern variations are easy to see, but the same is true for other qualities, egg laying ability for example. If the original hybrids came from good egg laying breeds and the hybrids were chosen for good egg laying ability, the odds are most of the offspring will be good egg layers. Some will not be as good at laying eggs as others. If you hatch out enough, whether purebred, hybrid or just mutts and select for good egg layers, you will probably continue to get good egg layers. But it is a never-ending cycle. If you don't select for egg laying ability, even purebreds will likely not be good egg layers over time, probably a very few generations.

Plants can get a little more complicated. You have many varieties that follow the general rules. If they are purebred, they will pretty much produce a purebred plant that has the same characteristics of the parents. There will be minor variations but they will pretty much breed true. If you cross two specific purebreds, you will get a hybrid that will have pretty reliable characteristics because specific genes are paired a specific way. But when you cross hybrids, there are so many different possibilities of gene matches and they interact in so many different ways, you really don't know what you will get. You might get something that looks like either original parent, something that looks like the hybrid, or you might get something totally different.

Then you have other plants that really complicate the issue. Apples immediately come to mind but there are plenty of others. Apples of a specific variety will not pollinate other apples of that same variety, even a second tree of the same variety. If you have one variety of apple tree, to get any apples, you need a different variety of apple that blooms at the same time so they can cross-pollinate. There are so many different genes in play, you have no idea what that offspring will look like. Sometimes you get lucky, but usually you get a small, twisted gnarled worthless apple. The only way you can get another Granny Smith, for example, is to graft a Granny Smith onto a rootstock. You cannot grow another Granny Smith from seeds. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
That is correct.
But what I was getting at is that Grafting isn't a form of hybridizing.

I wasn't stating that you could cross hybrid's and reproduce the the same plant.

Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

Quote:
When I posted -
Quote:
Refer back to my previous post were I posted -
Quote:
Chris

That would not be progating the hybrid tea rose, that would be cross breeding or propogating the Madame Bravy and the Madame Victor Verdier.

This statement

Some are by propagated by grafting and some are propagated by cross pollination and then grafted to rootstock

to me says that you would cross pollinate the hybrids and then graft to a different root stock.​

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
When I posted -
Quote:
Refer back to my previous post were I posted -
Quote:
Chris

That would not be progating the hybrid tea rose, that would be cross breeding or propogating the Madame Bravy and the Madame Victor Verdier.

This statement

Some are by propagated by grafting and some are propagated by cross pollination and then grafted to rootstock

to me says that you would cross pollinate the hybrids and then graft to a different root stock.​

The first hybrid tea rose was a cross between a Tea rose called "Madame Bravy" and a Hybrid Perpetual "Madame Victor Verdier" so yes it would be progating the hybrid tea rose.
You do know there is a difference between a Tea Rose and a Hybrid Tea Rose, right?

Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

Wow! This thread has taken some serious detours.

Then you have other plants that really complicate the issue. Apples immediately come to mind but there are plenty of others. Apples of a specific variety will not pollinate other apples of that same variety, even a second tree of the same variety. If you have one variety of apple tree, to get any apples, you need a different variety of apple that blooms at the same time so they can cross-pollinate. There are so many different genes in play, you have no idea what that offspring will look like. Sometimes you get lucky, but usually you get a small, twisted gnarled worthless apple. The only way you can get another Granny Smith, for example, is to graft a Granny Smith onto a rootstock. You cannot grow another Granny Smith from seeds. It just doesn't work that way.

Since fruit trees are one of my current projects, I thought I would weigh in. Some apple trees are said to be self fertile and will produce fruit without another variety. I am not convinced this is in fact the case, but some much more educated than me say it is true. As for planting a seed from a granny smith and getting a granny smith tree, if the granny self pollinated, you would be more likely to get true offspring. If it were cross pollinated, you would have a cross bred tree that may or may not produce apples characteristic of the granny smith title. Now this is one of my projects so I will let you know how it worked out. Of course I do not expect fruit for two more years.

The list of self pollinating apple trees is quite large, but everyone I have spoken with about this says that cross pollination will increase yield in every case.

BTW, apples are a great and nutritious supplement to feed your chickens to augment the corn diet.

 

[dlee]

Quote:
AMEN !!! All corn & soy is a GMO product. It is not the "REAL" stuff it used to be. Like you said, it's in just about everything we eat or feed to our chickens. I am trying to get away from feeding it to them. I'm growing lots of turnips & mustard greens all winter just to feed them. I just read an article about Iowa U starting to breed swine virus vaccine into corn !!! They say it will be about 5 yrs. before it is perfected. I hope I will be completely living out of my own garden by then.

 

[spartacus_63]

Spartacus_63 said:

And how are the hybrid teas propagated?

Chris09 said:

Some are by propagated by grafting and some are propagated by cross pollination and then grafted to rootstock

Spartacus_63 said:

Good luck on cross pollinating those hybrid roses.

Did I miss something?​

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Close but not all. Seed certified as organic by definition can not be GMO. Hundreds of varieties of flour, dent, and sweet corns exist yet that are not GMO.

I assume the same is with soy.. But I do not know for sure.

OK back off topic...

primal woman,
To quote more than one person in a post open another window of BYC quote the person and copy and paste it into the post you are writing. (Not sure if others have a better way..)

I thought I had a handle on the horticultural definition of hybrid... I begin to question myself..
I need to better understand the need of some species to cross pollinate in order to set fruit.. (One of those things was always aware of but never questioned...

)

On genes, one always needs to consider recessive and dominant genes.. Something I assume Chris09 knows well with his heritage Rosecomb RIR birds..... Just because two rose comb birds are bred does not mean the resulting offspring will be all rosecomb.

As Ridgerunner alluded to, a "pure breed" does not necessarily breed true..

By the way I contend we are totally on topic...

ON

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Chris09 said:

Some are by propagated by grafting and some are propagated by cross pollination and then grafted to rootstock

Spartacus_63 said:

Good luck on cross pollinating those hybrid roses.

Did I miss something?​

A lot but that is besides the point and I do believe I am done...

Chris​