Is it irresponsible to breed rabbits?

[azurbanclucker]

Some info on it in Netherlands.
https://www.ufaw.org.uk/rabbits/netherland-dwarf-dental-malocclusion
It happens, and while not rampant, it's common enough that you need to watch out for it. I'm with you, perpetuating that kind of defect seems unnecessary to me.

I've personally seen it in Hollands. We took on a buck that had it from someone who was going to sell it for snake food once. We learned how to trim teeth with that guy and he lived to be 6. A quick search of el google doesn't show anything specific about Hollands like it did for ND though.

 

[Chicks 'n ducks]

is there any way to avoid breeding rabbits with it?

 

[azurbanclucker]

is there any way to avoid breeding rabbits with it?

The simple answer is if you run into it in your herd, don't breed that rabbit spay/neuter them, get them out of the gene pool, and you're not passing it on from that individual.

The trait shows up occasionally, and the only way to really know if it's in your rabbit's genome is if it pops up or if the breeder you got your stock from had it pop up and told you. I'm guessing you can have some kind of genetic testing performed to see if it's latent in your herd, but honestly that seems like it might be expensive and not worth the effort. Like I mentioned, it's common enough to have research studies done, but probably not common enough to be systemic in most rabbit populations. I'm not concerned about it in my stock, it's a "manage it if and when it becomes a problem" issue that so far has not been a problem.

As always, I'll defer to better knowledge here. I've seen it, but definitely not something I've put a lot of research into.

 

[MROO]

Why do you say it’s irresponsible to hatch without thinking about the boys? Is there a problem with keeping boys from hatches? I’ve got several in my back garden, so has my mum, we don’t have any problems...

It's definitely irresponsible to hatch if you don't have a plan for the extra roosters. You and your Mom DO have a plan ... you keep them ... that's responsible. Not everyone has that ability. If someone can't keep extra roosters and can't cull or send them to freezer camp, then they have no plan. Many of those extra boys end up either dumped at a shelter (or on an unsuspecting customer, who then has to deal with them,) or kept in overcrowded conditions where they either fight constantly or overbreed and abuse their hens. That's irresponsible. Have a plan or don't hatch ... it's that simple!

BTW - I think your plan is the best way! I keep most of my extra roos, too. They make awfully nice eye candy and I love the chorus every morning (and noon, and mid-afternoon, and evening, and every time someone accidentally turns on the yard light at 3 am ... and ...)

 

[MROO]

I love that you are trying to make the ethical decisions before you start. Breeding for show, and trying to "improve" the breeding stock, can be worthwhile pursuits. As others have said, however, there will always be kits in the litter (sometimes the whole litter) that you will not want to show or breed. Those rabbits end up as pets or food. Period. Once you let them out of your hands, you have no control. Telling folks you will take them back, is the right thing to do, IMO, if you brought it into the world, you are responsible for it. Having said that, you do take the risk of bringing disease into your animals, also of getting so many back, that you then can't re-home. Some things to consider. Rabbits, along with guinea pigs, hamsters and parakeets, are what is called in the pet business, as "starter pets" Those are the pets that parents get for their kids, who are really begging for a dog or cat, to "teach the kid responsibility" or to shut them up about getting a dog. They think these animals don't live long, so they won't end up caring for them. Often the child loses interest, because they didn't want it in the first place, they wanted a dog, and the parent gets rid of it, or it dies from neglect. I don't know if you know this, but unspayed female rabbits can be really nasty, due to raging hormones. Un neutered males often spray like cats. More reasons to "get rid' of them. Lots of people don't want to spend $150 t0 $200 dollars to spay a $20 pet for the kid. I don't know about your area, but the shelters here all have lots of rabbits. We even have a shelter here dedicated solely to rabbits. People also dump them, thinking they can live "wild". Lots to think about. One thing you can do, get your feet wet in the showing side, by getting a good quality rabbit from your friend, to see if you even like showing. Then you can think about breeding later. Thanks for putting some thought into it. Sorry for being so long winded.

Couldn't have said it better, myself! Most people think that rabbits (and guinea pigs) only live a few years, like hamsters. In reality, they're more like cats. Our pet rabbits lived well into their teens. We even had a 19 year old guinea pig. George surprised us and became Georgia ... at 11!

 

[ButtonquailGirl14]

Hello all,
I am in search of some advice. I would LOVE to start breeding holland lop bunnies. But I am torn if it would be a bad thing to do. Let me start out by saying that I would start VERY small (one to two does and a buck) and invest in quality stock. A friend of mine will be breeding her chocolate hollands this fall and I would get my stock from her. they are show quality. Best care possible would be given, and I would keep a waiting list of homes for the new bunnies. I would also have a "no questions asked" return policy. BUT, I hear that breeding rabbits is irresponsible when there are so many bunnies in the shelters. What is your opinion?
Thank you!

it all depends how you do it, but show quaility stock has almost no chance of shelters because anyone spending the money for them probably won't dump them!

I think it gets irresponsible for those who don't have a plan, or reason for breeding.

X2

 

[Bunnylady]

it all depends how you do it, but show quaility stock has almost no chance of shelters because anyone spending the money for them probably won't dump them!

In the rabbit world, there can be a big difference between "show quality" and "show winning." Often, "show quality" simply means that the rabbit isn't too large or too small, and doesn't have any other disqualifications like mismatched claws or obvious physical deformities.

Even the priciest rabbit is dirt cheap compared to, say, pedigreed dogs or horses, and think about how many of them wind up in rescues. A hefty price tag can weed out an impulse buyer, but it can't guarantee a forever home.

Working with a dwarf breed, you are guaranteed to have some "false dwarf" offspring that won't have a prayer at being a show rabbit because they are too big. Even grand champions must throw some false dwarfs - it's inevitable. They are healthy, beautiful rabbits, but they are pet quality, and no ethical breeder can call them show quality - or charge show quality prices for them.

On the subject of bad teeth - there is no genetic test, at least, none that I've ever heard of. Money generally drives these things, and my bet is that in most cases, the test would probably cost more than the rabbit. But hey, you can get your mutt doggy tested to see what breeds are most likely in its ancestry, so a test may come about someday.

Best you can do is check, and check, and check again as the bunnies grow, and hope that the people you bought from were as careful. Usually, you can spot the teeth that don't line up properly long before the bunnies are old enough to sell. That said, I had one line of Dwarfs that seemed to have perfect teeth as youngsters, but which developed the malocclusion really late - about the time they got old enough to breed. With the first one that did that, I thought perhaps it was due to some mechanical stress like pulling on its feeder, but when the bad teeth appeared in others of the same line, I retired the whole line. Pity - they were harlequin patterned, and had been given to me by a friend who had roped me into her efforts to breed Chocolate Magpies. I hate quitting before a goal is achieved, but I just couldn't work with that - there were going to be a lot of "not the right color" animals produced before we got where we were trying to go, and I couldn't in good conscious sell them as pets, knowing that they might wind up giving their owners the headache of the bad teeth. Yes, you can clip them, if you have the nerve, but it isn't a pleasant process for the rabbit or the owner.

 

[townchicks]

it all depends how you do it, but show quaility stock has almost no chance of shelters because anyone spending the money for them probably won't dump them!

I don't believe that to be the case at all, plus we are not really talking about the show quality rabbits, we are talking about the rest of the litter that are pet quality. I know full well, after 30+ years of caring for other peoples pets, as a groomer and as a vet assistant, the money spent on the purchase of an animal, is no guarantee that it will be loved and cared for. Having a take back policy helps, but even that is no guarantee it won't end up in a shelter or worse, it happens to dogs and cats all the time.

 

[JanetMarie]

You also have to consider that quite a lot of people are just plain LAZY, too busy checking their cell phones 300+ times per day and too selfish to properly take care of another creature, and therefore won't take care of a pet even if they paid good money for it. For me that would be the main consideration.

Aside from that, there could be a few people who would treasure them, and you know would take care of them, and you maybe breed a few for yourself.

 

[MROO]

Rabbits is NOT supposed to be part of chicken math!

Oh HEAVENS no! There's no real comparison between the two. If you think chicken math is bad, try rabbits. For some reason, the calculations in RM are not just mathematical, they're exponential!
Been there, done that, scooped the pellets and all. I loved my buns, but I'm never breeding again!