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Okay, I've went through the entire thread. One of the posters pointed out that while the rude behavior of adults . . .and I'm not sure why that surprises anyone . . . it was actually a valuable learning experience for your daughter . . .that was very astute. That being said, I'm gonna point out some stuff some might not like to hear, but keep in mind, I am trying to help you.
For one thing, Kids have no real business speaking at all in a situation like that. Anyone who disagrees is naive. Governance is adult business, period. I wouldn't let her speak again at the council meeting again. It might be cute. It might be noble and brave on the part of the child, so my opinion is in no way a negative aspersion on her. On the contrary. It sounds like she handled a situation she shouldn't have been put in like a trooper. But kids don't need to be speaking before the council, at least on an issue like this, and other than for ceremonial or award purposes, I can't think of any valid reason for it to happen. To doubt that is a mistake. I'll reiterate it again because it's important: Kids shouldn't be speaking, in ANY official capacity, on Governmental issues.
Also, adults or children need to leave the romantic an emotional stuff out of their arguments before a council. I see Backyard Chicken people make that mistake a LOT when lobbying for their cause. Save that for the media interview or letter to the editor. I don't even care for it then, but it's downright counterproductive to do that in Council session. I think you saw that.
Like it or not, the majority of people are a little skeptical of our keeping birds, particularly in a suburban residential setting. We do ourselves no favors by anthropomorphizing to them. There are few things worse to say than "My ducks are like my children." For a twelve year old, that is actually a valid statement, in and of itself. Which is also one reason kids shouldn't be speaking in a situation like this. It makes us look downright kooky when adults say it. You really don't want to come across as "The Crazy Duck Lady" when you are defending your right to keep your birds.
Again, the vast majority of people don't really give keeping poultry much thought at all. But, when it becomes an issue, they will give it a little thought. And what little thought they give it tends to be skeptical. The trick is to present an articulate, common-sense argument out there, with as little emotional anthropomorphism as possible. Most folks don't care if a duck is loving,cuddly, and sweet. They care if it gonna bug them if their neighbor gets one. Convince them it won't be an issue, and they simply go back to not caring one way or the other again. Let the "duck haters" make themselves look like the emotionally unbalanced morons, and the rest takes care of itself, if we keep doggedly advancing the cause.
When the next meeting comes up, Have some facts and figures that support you case. That dog that barks constantly near your house? Maybe you could stand between the enclosure and where the dog is and record the constant dog noise. Play it and point out that the tape is 90% dog noise and at best 10%, tops, duck noise.
See it doesn't matter that ducks, or chickens (even roosters) make noise. They do. But laws can not discriminate against an animal that actually makes LESS noise than another animal that makes MORE NOISE that is perfectly acceptable. Sure, Ducks poop. But so do dogs. Why would someone be more worried about duck poop than dog poop? They simply can not discriminate against an animal for pooping and allow another critter that poops carte' blanche'.
The bottom line is that a Duck is no more a burden on society kept as a pet than a dog is. And a Duck can't jump a fence run down a child, and maim or kill that child. A duck won't hop in an open car window and spray the interior down with cat whiz and musk.
It is the cities duty to NOT interfere with peoples right to liberty and the free and unfettered use of their own property without just and reasonable cause. Ducks are no more of a fetterance to other peoples rights than a dog and cat are. Therefore, they actually have no actual just and reasonable cause to prohibit our keeping them on our own property. Therefore, even if a majority of the town is against your keeping of ducks, The council actually has a duty to protect your right to have an animal that is no more a burden on society than the more common dog or cat.
THAT is what folks should be arguing . . .and even suing for. The United States is NOT a democracy. We are a Democratic Republic, and one of the reasons our forefathers designed our system the way they did was to protect the rights of 'the few' against the fickle will of 'the many.'
DawnJoeandNikki, My advice is don't even concern yourself with how people can be so cruel. It doesn't matter how, for your purposes, on this issue anyway. What matters is they are, right or wrong. If you speak on the matter again, you have to be pragmatic. "Just the facts". When someone makes a fictional statement or raises a silly objection to something you said, calmly and cooly grill them on it. Ask them how they came to that conclusion. Ask them where they acquired that information and if you can have a copy of the study that confirms what they claim.
One thing to remember is that unlike much of "real life" . . . in politics . . . and that includes speaking before a council . . . . ya DON'T catch more flies with sugar than vinegar. In politics, "nice guys finish last." You have to go in there ready to keep your emotions in check. you don't want to come across as passionate. You also don't want to come across as mean spirited either. The best way I can describe the proper mindset is to go in there like Mr. Spock, from Star Trek. Calmly, coolly, logically, . . . go for their jugulars.
That meeting is NOT necessarily the end of it. Even if they make a "final ruling" or whatever. There is no reason you can't still keep fighting. You may well run out of time . . . for this batch . . .of ducks. (but hopefully not) But that doesn't mean it's time to dismantle the coop just yet!
Good luck at the next meeting!
Okay, I've went through the entire thread. One of the posters pointed out that while the rude behavior of adults . . .and I'm not sure why that surprises anyone . . . it was actually a valuable learning experience for your daughter . . .that was very astute. That being said, I'm gonna point out some stuff some might not like to hear, but keep in mind, I am trying to help you.
For one thing, Kids have no real business speaking at all in a situation like that. Anyone who disagrees is naive. Governance is adult business, period. I wouldn't let her speak again at the council meeting again. It might be cute. It might be noble and brave on the part of the child, so my opinion is in no way a negative aspersion on her. On the contrary. It sounds like she handled a situation she shouldn't have been put in like a trooper. But kids don't need to be speaking before the council, at least on an issue like this, and other than for ceremonial or award purposes, I can't think of any valid reason for it to happen. To doubt that is a mistake. I'll reiterate it again because it's important: Kids shouldn't be speaking, in ANY official capacity, on Governmental issues.
Also, adults or children need to leave the romantic an emotional stuff out of their arguments before a council. I see Backyard Chicken people make that mistake a LOT when lobbying for their cause. Save that for the media interview or letter to the editor. I don't even care for it then, but it's downright counterproductive to do that in Council session. I think you saw that.
Like it or not, the majority of people are a little skeptical of our keeping birds, particularly in a suburban residential setting. We do ourselves no favors by anthropomorphizing to them. There are few things worse to say than "My ducks are like my children." For a twelve year old, that is actually a valid statement, in and of itself. Which is also one reason kids shouldn't be speaking in a situation like this. It makes us look downright kooky when adults say it. You really don't want to come across as "The Crazy Duck Lady" when you are defending your right to keep your birds.
Again, the vast majority of people don't really give keeping poultry much thought at all. But, when it becomes an issue, they will give it a little thought. And what little thought they give it tends to be skeptical. The trick is to present an articulate, common-sense argument out there, with as little emotional anthropomorphism as possible. Most folks don't care if a duck is loving,cuddly, and sweet. They care if it gonna bug them if their neighbor gets one. Convince them it won't be an issue, and they simply go back to not caring one way or the other again. Let the "duck haters" make themselves look like the emotionally unbalanced morons, and the rest takes care of itself, if we keep doggedly advancing the cause.
When the next meeting comes up, Have some facts and figures that support you case. That dog that barks constantly near your house? Maybe you could stand between the enclosure and where the dog is and record the constant dog noise. Play it and point out that the tape is 90% dog noise and at best 10%, tops, duck noise.
See it doesn't matter that ducks, or chickens (even roosters) make noise. They do. But laws can not discriminate against an animal that actually makes LESS noise than another animal that makes MORE NOISE that is perfectly acceptable. Sure, Ducks poop. But so do dogs. Why would someone be more worried about duck poop than dog poop? They simply can not discriminate against an animal for pooping and allow another critter that poops carte' blanche'.
The bottom line is that a Duck is no more a burden on society kept as a pet than a dog is. And a Duck can't jump a fence run down a child, and maim or kill that child. A duck won't hop in an open car window and spray the interior down with cat whiz and musk.
It is the cities duty to NOT interfere with peoples right to liberty and the free and unfettered use of their own property without just and reasonable cause. Ducks are no more of a fetterance to other peoples rights than a dog and cat are. Therefore, they actually have no actual just and reasonable cause to prohibit our keeping them on our own property. Therefore, even if a majority of the town is against your keeping of ducks, The council actually has a duty to protect your right to have an animal that is no more a burden on society than the more common dog or cat.
THAT is what folks should be arguing . . .and even suing for. The United States is NOT a democracy. We are a Democratic Republic, and one of the reasons our forefathers designed our system the way they did was to protect the rights of 'the few' against the fickle will of 'the many.'
DawnJoeandNikki, My advice is don't even concern yourself with how people can be so cruel. It doesn't matter how, for your purposes, on this issue anyway. What matters is they are, right or wrong. If you speak on the matter again, you have to be pragmatic. "Just the facts". When someone makes a fictional statement or raises a silly objection to something you said, calmly and cooly grill them on it. Ask them how they came to that conclusion. Ask them where they acquired that information and if you can have a copy of the study that confirms what they claim.
One thing to remember is that unlike much of "real life" . . . in politics . . . and that includes speaking before a council . . . . ya DON'T catch more flies with sugar than vinegar. In politics, "nice guys finish last." You have to go in there ready to keep your emotions in check. you don't want to come across as passionate. You also don't want to come across as mean spirited either. The best way I can describe the proper mindset is to go in there like Mr. Spock, from Star Trek. Calmly, coolly, logically, . . . go for their jugulars.
That meeting is NOT necessarily the end of it. Even if they make a "final ruling" or whatever. There is no reason you can't still keep fighting. You may well run out of time . . . for this batch . . .of ducks. (but hopefully not) But that doesn't mean it's time to dismantle the coop just yet!
Good luck at the next meeting!
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