Java Peahen with White feathers?

[Bigcreekpeafowl]

Well my vet and the zoo vet are checking into the values and their databases for Java green hematology and plumage pigmentation loss . They wanted photos which I sent.
Will see what they come up with. There are CBC and metabolic values for IB readily available on the internet. I noticed these lack vitamin K.

From initial conversations it is a possibility of excess instead of deficiency. However vitamin K was not mentioned from 3 avian vets as what they suspect initially.

The only deficiency that they mentioned as a possibility was estrogen. Which I think is reasonable.
But as I said we just started discussing this and will see what they come up with.

 

[bdfive]

OH NO!! it's contageous!!!!! I noticed this morning one of my 50% Spalding hens have one white feather on the right side of her chest!!! This is happening in one pen but they all get the same food so I'm sure it's not the food. LOL, I'm beginning to think with all the off breeding going on that in the future a rarity will be a peafowl without white feathers, hahahaha!!! Talked with Dale last night about switching out the Java hen. He'll put her in a breeding program trying to get more white. Will be something if I bring home another of his peahens and it produces white feathers after next years molt. I can see the intrigue of this hobby never ends.

 

[featherhead]

Well, I guess it can happen with different species, too. I have a pure white banty chicken hen that is 6 years old. Last year, she sprouted one black tail feather. This year she molted the black tailfeather, but got a couple dozen tan feathers around her neck and saddle. It's really weird. And at 6 years old, she hadn't laid an egg for over a year. A couple of weeks ago, she laid an egg right in front of me when I was in the coop. I was speechless for an hour. Perfect banty egg, great shell, perfectly formed. Go figure...

 

[Exotics R Us]

Some of the imported Muticus birds from Wolfgang Manning are showing some White ticking (feathers) as well.

Ricky

 

[bdfive]

Interesting chicken Featherhead. Actually sounds fun having them change colors...adds spice to our life. Now the Java peahen has a couple white feathers on her legs, haha!!! She's molting a lot of them. Makes me realize all the feathers from these birds filling the pens aren't all old ones. Some of the new feathers fall out as well I guess.

Ricky, makes me wonder if the white feathers appearing could have something to do with diet due to being taken from their native habitat. Sure wish I could keep this girl but only have room for one and prefer to have an all dark Java. Nice thing is I'll be able to see her in the future. Dale has a male with some white and will be breeding them together to see what results he gets. I still feel guilty sending her back....she has a cushy life here. I keep putting it off thinking the white will all fall out and she'll go back to normal, LOL!!!

Bigcreekpeafowl, please keep us informed.

Connerhills, that's sad. After reading it I'm hoping Bigcreedpeafowl's resources can follow through and do enough research to get some answers. I'm assuming we can suppliment vitamin K?.... but estrogen?

 

[Resolution]

I purchased a female green peafowl of the "RM" line from a very reputable aviculturist that warned me she was developing white feathers and that her mother had even more of them.
She certainly had lots of them and as she was in mid-moult when she arrived, watching the white feathering envelope the bird-was a bit alarming.


We genotyped the hen and both her parents with 22 microsatellite markers to check for the existence of hybridization with cristatus and found no evidence of hybridization with the Indian Peafowl. However, the parents were both composites of different forms of Green Peafowl including the extinct muticus muticus from Malaysia. So- this particular hen and her mother were both "pure" green peafowl and both exhibited this white feathering phenomenon.

We tend to think of the green peafowl in the singular- " Java" but Java is a big island in Indonesia many thousands of miles across the sea from South East Asia. Populations of green peafowl within South East Asia from places like the Cardamom Mountain Range in Cambodia, the Arakan Yomas in Burma- these populations are as distinct from one another as any one of them is to the Indian Peafowl. Yes. Different forms of green peafowl closely resemble one another. That morphology and phenotype has, until human times, proved to be very advantageous. They're hard to see when they don't want to be seen- are tall enough to wade in elephant grass without getting lost- and long legged enough to catch frogs and insects on the marshy banks of streams. So different Green Peafowl forms share a very similar appearance, though not so similar that they are impossible to distinguish from one another if you know what you're looking at.

With "Java Greens" we've just been handed a treasure trove with not much information as to it origins -the significance of the stock. In the 1980's many people bought into the "muticus muticus" marketing blitz that reintroduced hobbyists with the green peafowl. The enterprising real estate tycoon who drempt it all up went about collecting every green peafowl that he deemed worthy and added it to his breeding stock. He select bred that stock like domestic chickens for traits that he considered attractive and from what he'd read. He was going for a description he read in Delacour's Pheasants of the World book. The only problem is the real estate tycoon whose name continues to be associated with an invaluable genetic bank of green peafowl bloodlines, he had no knowledge or really any interest where his peafowl actually came from. He didn't import them but rather bought up a few pairs from someone who knew someone that had and another whole flock of birds from a bird importer left responsible for a collection of someone that had passed. This flock as best I can determine from genetic sleuthing was partially Javanese, partially Malaysian and a tiny bit Annamese. Beautiful birds and well bred as heirlooms - but the muticus muticus moniker was unfortunate in that it broadcast the business in buying and selling a species that had become extinct in its native country due in large part to poaching for aviculture. The other unfortunate issue is the fact that Javanese peafowl are dissimilar and clearly not the same species of peafowl as the Malaysian. Anyone who has seen them much less handled them can see this clearly. Crossing the two together was a non-starter. It didn't help the captive populations of either species. The objective of the muticus muticus initiative had more to do with money than it had to do with conservation obviously. And now there are birds out there with a bad name -they aught not have negativity associated with them at all. They're beautiful birds and they are composite between three different species of Green Peafowl. They are clearly not Malaysia's muticus muticus at least not entirely.
Very few people that keep Javas know where they came from. It's not their fault that they are crossing different forms of green peafowl together- unlike the creation of Spauldings- there's nothing intuitive about not putting two green peafowl together- it's hard to identify distinguishing features -the whole bird is such a marvel of nature- it sort of dazzles the eye enough to overwhelm the analytical. Judging from what I've watched going on with the peafowl hobbyists set it's unlikely that consensus could be built on what these characteristics might/should be and what significance- that's all relative. -Most often I hear people selecting for crest height and so on- but rarely anything truly significant. There doesn't seem to be much curiosity in the USA about Green Peafowl other than buying and selling them.

Again, it's not the fault of peafowl hobbyist that breeds different forms of green peafowl together. How were they to know there were different races and even species to begin with? The vast majority of green peafowl in this nation are "evergreen" that is- they are a composite of different green peafowl forms with no Indian Peafowl blood whatsoever. Unfortunately, there are many more hybrids with high% of green composite in number than "evergreen". The tiny numbers of green peafowl of known provenance in this country are being maintained for the most part by ethical people concerned with the conservation of these birds and not involved in get rich quick schemes.



White feathers -so this peahen- she was all green genetically- and yet she had these white feathers racing in. I wondered if she might have been exposed to insecticides or fungicides. Something was going on hormonally and it was affecting haplotype -epistasis- and only females- I've never known a male to develop this problem. Pesticides were ruled out.

I asked our nutritionist if there might be a dietary component at work as well. My theory that crossing different forms greens results in white feathering was met with a "possibly but not all that likely" from mentors. Not much was learned actually- but the bird moulted and never grew another white feather. Once she was on an optimal diet, her hormones returned to normal and she was able to produce pigment for all of her feathers.
This leads me to suspect that diet plays some part in the issue. In my opinion, the problem begins with the mother being fed less than ideal foodstuffs and consequently the egg is deficient for the chick's development. Certain genes are turned off or were never turned on and this leads to cellular flux as it were...As the bird matures a few haplotypes have gone screwy or they've been turned around- I wonder if this is going to develop into cancer- but then I worry about eating microwave popcorn for the same reason...
Joking aside, I blame soybean in feed. Find a supplement that is soy free and mix it into an inexpensive scratch grain. Don't bother with foods formulated for dogs or cats if you can find a comparable one formulated for birds.

The bird will need to be on the diet for an entire year- and she'll go into a heavy moult one year after you've started- but she'll probably never grow another white feather again.

Dale has a lot of birds. I hope he doesn't lose sight of her.

 

[Bigcreekpeafowl]

Thanks Resolution, your post was informative and thought provoking for me regarding diet, and herbicides/pesticides. And the history of green peafowl. Which in my opinion are spectacular.

The OP mentioned trading his/her hen back. And probably a hard choice to make. I feel for them having to make a choice when they have become attached to her and her to them. With our hen she has been here 3 years now and will always have a home here.
I just hope the condition is not a precursor for something fatal. That is my primary concern.

Two things you brought up are very real possibilities. We live on a farm and you can see in the photos how close her pen is to the fields. And her base food which we have ground DOES contain soybean meal. Cargill assayed the feed for nutrition and it was found to be nutritionally sound. But I can send you the ingredients and percentage if you would like to see it.
That is their base, they also get sunflower seeds, 20% gamebird crumbles, whole wheat and grain bread, catfood, fruit and veggies twice a week. She goes for the fruit! And crickets from the worm ranch which provides safe worms and insects for the birds. And Vionate added to their food every other day.

I have got a little feedback from the vet, but waiting for more. Was surprised at the differences in potassium normal values for the green versus IB. Big difference.

My primary (only concern really) is not her $ value. It is her health. I worry this may be the beginning of something that might be deadly for her. IF it is diet we can change that. We rotate wormers. Valbazen, safeguard, and levamisole is what we use in the rotation schedule. Every 90 days we worm with one of them.

The photos were taken yesterday. It was cloudy with light rain. I had a jacket with a hood on and she freaked out. So she would not stay still for a second. In the beginning of this thread I posted photos of her before the change began, then the progression over the last 3 years.

If you have a chance let me know what you think.
Thanks to all who have responded. It is greatly appreciated. And to the OP for beginning this thread.

 

[bdfive]

WOW, when I started this thread I never realized how complicated this could all be. I'm so thankful to all of you for participating and sharing your knowledge. I'll check for soy in the feed and try to eliminate it. Presently I'm feeding Nutrena which is a Cargill product I think. I've ordered a bag of Murazi Breeder. Thought I'd try it even tho it's expensive. It's what the San Antonio zoo uses.

I shouldn't have as many birds as I do only being a hobbyist. Problem is these Spalding chicks are so friendly and personable it's hard to send them away, LOL!!! The 3 oldest I kept are going on 2 years now. They are so beautiful. Can't wait to see them when they have their trains. The one female is growing out nice as well. Of course they are pets now and this is their forever home. Have 3 others I've kept from 2011 early hatch... same Java male and different Spalding hen. The hen has a couple white wing feathers. 1 of her babies has no white, 1 has a white wing feather and other has a small white spot on it's throat. I guess I want to see how they all grow out but pretty ignorant to keep all these same blood birds. I'm already checking out future homes for them but they'll be with me for a while. Am actually driving to properties of people to inspect living conditions, LOL!!! ALSO have 4 smaller the mom that doesn't produce white feathers is raising.

My birds all get vegs, fruit, whole grain bread I purchase from Costco, 6% protein with lots of seeds/nuts in it, scrambled eggs once in a while, shelled sunflower seed, kibble and other food I deem healthy. No pesticides being sprayed I know of around here. Still apprehensive taking my girl back but since death has been mentioned regarding another that had white feathers I'm even more convinced it's what I should do. I'd be so devastated if she passed. This girl is a card when it comes to personality....I've already become really attached and haven't had her a year. I imagine packing her up, making the 2 1/2 hour drive, visiting with Dale a while looking at the other Java hens and bringing her back home, LOL!!! Maybe I should take a second carrier incase I keep her and purchase another.

I really need to take pictures and learn how to post them here. Unlike the white in the body of this bird in the picture (Bigcreekpeafowl) my hen only has them on the neck, chest and now legs. I need to look back at the pictures of yours when they first appeared....maybe was the same.

 

[Resolution]

Quote:
What a pleasant and positive reaffirmation of the civility and ethical consideration in husbandry- that it still exists. Please do send the ingredient data. I'm curious to see what's in it.
It's wonderful that you put the health of this beautiful hen as the only objective of your research. Of course this is an example of professional zooculture, a slightly different approach to the discipline of animal husbandry from aviculture and of course aviculture is a bit removed from utility farming

 

[Resolution]

Quote:
San Antonio Zoo uses UltraKibble as their primary feed for most birds in the park. They will use Mazuri as maintenance feed for others but Congo Peafowl, Argus, Peacock-Pheasants, Roul Roul, Shore Birds- they are fed UltraKibble as their maintenance diet. You mix the kibble with scratch grain as a supplement. It's soy free and a hard pellet versus a soft pellet - disclaimer-I'm the formulator of UltraKibble and naturally the founder of the company. I didn't start a feed company to make money- I was having my own feed made and that proved to be trying because the mills would only let me make several tons at a time. That was many years ago and a business has flourished from the original objective - and that's to feed birds naturally. I do not manage the company or run it in any way.
I won't go into this further as it really bothers people when I talk about my products. If you want to learn more about them just write me personally or go to the foragecakes.com website.

Something that must be stressed here is that the natural diet of Green Peafowl is sufficiently different from that of the Indian. The Indian Peafowl ( like the Red Junglefowl) can and does seasonally subsist largely on low quality food- plant matter including seeds . Green Peafowl (like the Green Junglefowl) have no such vegetarian season. Their bodies are not designed to metabolize nutrients from plants. True they do eat plenty of plant matter but this is largely roughage and green seeds- that is seeds that are still nutritious and bursting with volatile oils, fatty acids and vitamins. Green Peafowl are ,like other peafowls, particularly fond of small animals they capture on the banks of streams and other water bodies. Frogs and invertebrates are their primary diet for much of the year. For reasons I've never quite worked out, two foods the Japanese provide the rarest peafowl species- the Congo Peafowl and Crested Argus, two food items you'll find on their feed table daily are cultivated mushrooms and steamed sweet potato. They'll feed this year round and supplement a diet otherwise based on cooked brown rice and raw millet with dried shrimp. My own diets for these same birds utilises the aforementioned kibble with inexpensive scratch grain. I'll make a "dragon salad" with cultivated mushrooms, cubed sweet potatoes and cubed beets, frozen spinach, low sugar canned fruit, a few whole jars of peppercorns, a bag of walnuts and whatever mostly healthy breakfast cereal that can be procured at the dollar store. So the dry feed is maintenance food put out daily and the salad is put out once every four or five days or even once a week. When I treat the birds- to draw them close for observation my tools are walnuts, grapes, frozen berries and/or steamed shrimp in the shell that have been diced into moderately sized pieces. The one material listed here that is actually going to contribute important nutrients is the cooked shrimp in the shell.

Something to keep in mind about pacers is that a peafowl aviary will ideally have four feet of opaque material- be that shade cloth, burlap ( watch for errant strings) landscape cloth ( don't use that cheap crap that disintegrates into plastic threads) -cut windows in the material for viewing - and really these windows will ideally have a chair in front of them. The birds don't need to see through the walls of the aviary. It stresses them out. They're tropical grassland adapted species for the most part and their instinct is to make haste and move over a huge territory daily in order to procure as much food as they can in places where food is hard to come by without considerable effort and ecological specialisation. An aviary that makes it easy for you to see in and marvel may be good for your psyche but it's actually stressful for the birds that are pacing. So that's just something to keep in mind. If you have a private facility out of eye sight and have financial challenges when it comes to your bird collection you can always use thrift store sheets and curtains to make barriers between aviaries and around them.

This beautiful photo was taken by Fritz in northern Thailand.