Lavender-Based Leghorn Breeding & Improvement Discussion

[ChicKat]

Just thought of something................

For my project birds I mixed hard-featherng + soft-feathering. Wonder if feather quality has any tie in to hard vs soft feathering. I'd almost say that my birds are more soft feathered like Legbars.... Have done zero research on that.

Do those with ragged feathers have mostly hard feathered birds in their birds. ??

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Regarding your poster boy Isabel, I think that he is right up there with the very best examples of Isabel coloration -- but I really like all the Isabel coloration. When I was out in the coops today it occurs to me that when I analyze that guy I think I see the results of these specific genes in his clear pattern and nice colors.

• Obviously he must have two lavender genes
• Based on the white wing triangle I'm going to say Silver on the S-Locus
• Based on the crisp pattern I'm going to say homozygous e+ for e-Locus
• and some of the warm colors are from Autosomal Red - but I think based partly on the examples from Sigrid Van Dort's page on Ar gene that this cockerel is heterozygous, therefore Ar+/ar

So IMO

is
e+/e+ S/S Ar+/ar lav/lav --

along with what other genes he may have -- obviously yellow leg genes and white earlobe genes for example. The hens with him also look very nice....the hen on the left -- is kind of built like a tank -- she looks like she has particularly sturdy legs and wide distance between her legs as well as very 'fleshy'.
View attachment 1967111

okay, maybe Ar+/Ar+ -- what would y'all guess? Based on that middle row of cockrels from post #67 -- now that I wrote heterozygous for Ar+ I'm changing my mind and saying homozygous and carries 2 autosomal red genes...and I think the last one in that middle row shows golden tons in saddles and hackles but still retains white wing triangle..it may be difficult to discern from post #67...at any rate, that's what I would want to put in the "recipe" for a cockerel like the photo.
View attachment 1967139
That's better, because lav/lav diluts both the red and the black. So the black in the above diagram would be lav and the reds would be lighter. Kind of like putting in Ar+/Ar+ in the mix, only to dilute it with lav/lav.

Ok when i plugged in what would happen breeding silvers to isabel, a percentage of the males came out "golden duckwing" which is an intermediate between true silver DW and true gold DW. Is that this, except expressing the lavender modifier? Seems like it could be.

And yeah, those hens are #goals. The width, check out the front assembly on the one to the right of the cock bird, too.

Ass to whether the feather quality is associated with hard feathering, definitely not. These issues have plagued lavender Orpingtons and lavender Ameraucanas pretty much all along, both soft feathered birds. It would have been brought in with the Orpingtons that were used to develop the variety.

 

[Tbird84]

So, I have happened upon 5 young Isabel chicks that are not 'related' to my current stock. I'm going to pick them up tomorrow. We'll have to wait and see how they grow out, but I'm glad to have some mostly different blood for now

 

[ChicKat]

I have happened upon 5 young Isabel chicks that are not 'related' to my current stock.

Well done!
This is so good for both your stock and for the variety! When you get time, tells us the details...age, any background etc.
Some chickens - for example the Silverudd's blue Isbar, and others became very 'inbred'. There were issues of vigor from what some of those of us who had them surmised.
In my flock, I kept strict spreadsheets of who was related to whom. --
Now with only 3 of my variety, I think that there are two factors that can contribute to their well being into the future:
1. Periodic out-crossing to both refresh the coloration and put some vigor in the line and
2. When pairing closely related birds to mate parent-child and not brothers and sisters.
Would LOVE to see pictures of your birds.....and that goes for one and all -- where are the photos?

Happy ++T*H*A*N*K*S*G*I*V*I*N*G++ to everybody!

 

[Tbird84]

They are between 1 and 3wks. I am going to give them a little time to decompress and make sure they are still kicking before pictures. As for my older crew, I need to get some new ones.

 

[ChicKat]

It's always a really good idea to have chickens stressed as LITTLE as possible. !!!

 

[Tbird84]

I believe this was Fricassee in the corner before Haiku picked him up. I could be wrong though. The teenage stage is so unflattering for the boys.

These are the parents. The male(Arthur) had frostbite of his comb before I got them. Tennessee mountains. I will have to get new ones where they aren't shadowed.

 

[Tbird84]

Ok when i plugged in what would happen breeding silvers to isabel, a percentage of the males came out "golden duckwing" which is an intermediate between true silver DW and true gold DW. Is that this, except expressing the lavender modifier? Seems like it could be.

And yeah, those hens are #goals. The width, check out the front assembly on the one to the right of the cock bird, too.

Ass to whether the feather quality is associated with hard feathering, definitely not. These issues have plagued lavender Orpingtons and lavender Ameraucanas pretty much all along, both soft feathered birds. It would have been brought in with the Orpingtons that were used to develop the variety.

That shredder gene is going to be a real pain to deal with. I'm also working on large fowl lavender Cochins. The offspring look much better than the parents already but I need to outcross, hatch a TON and cull a TON. This work in progress is why I won't sell a cockeral with any of the pullets I move on. I don't want the issue perpetuated because someone wants to make a quick buck on the color. @HaikuHeritageFarm was able to talk me out of an Isabel cockeral because of her sincerity. I know she has their best interests in mind.

 

[ChicKat]

These are the parents. The male(Arthur) had frostbite of his comb before I got them. Tennessee mountains. I will have to get new ones where they aren't shadowed.

Nice pair.

I wonder how many million years it would take to get my barred versions to have the semblance of a nice duckwing. Single barred male still showed a duckwing bar, but once that second barring gene is added -- most have more disruption than barring.
Thanks for posting the pictures, and I agree -- it takes a long time to really see the beauty of mature plumage.....

 

[Tbird84]

That barring is definitely going to be a challenge, but what fun would it be if the work was already done for you?