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- #101
Black and Red --
Tell you what - I really like the writing style Grant Brereton uses -- it's direct, simplified and sometimes he sneaks in humor. He's really knowledgeable and having met him in 'real life' - he is just like he sounds. Here's an article from a year ago - I was looking for the one where he explains that all chicken colors come from black and red - and the absence of these white --
however, didn't immediately put my finger on that article.
Instead I came across this one:
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/dominant-white-gene/
This article is closer to the one I was originally thinking of -
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/poultry-plumage/
Here's a quote from the article:
"There are only two types of pigment when it comes to poultry: black and red. Black is quite obviously black, but the term ‘red’ describes a host of tones from the lightest lemon to the darkest mahogany; something to keep in mind." Grant Brereton
The lavender gene which IS so central to this project isn't referenced or mentioned in either article - but lavender dilutes BOTH red and black pigments so it is strong. Barring is when the pigment distribution in the feather is turned off and on as the feather grows out.
The black genetics are pretty straightforward. Black or non-black and diluted black which in this case is done by the chicken having two recessive lavender genes. In genetic terms it would be called homozygous for lavender and written as "lav/lav" - using the lower case 'L' -- The upper case is dominant and reflects what a 'wild type' bird would be expected to have -- and when the bird is a split and has one copy of the recessive 'lav' and one of the dominant 'Lav' gene it is heterozygous for lavender or "Lav/lav" -- and looks like a bird with no recessive lavender because that is the way most dominant genes work. Incomplete dominant - such as Cresting: 'Cr' and Mahogany: 'Mh' behave a bit differently..
That's all been covered previously, and as stated it is straightforward.
Then there's the red side of the equation -- and bear with me - I'm still wrapping my head around this side......
Basically Mahogany darkens any reds. There are other red enhancers and simple 'red' can be expressed in different ways.
This example from the following article is a real 'milestone' to understanding some of the effects of red influences in plumage:
It is from this article by Grant Brereton:
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/the-other-type-of-gold-red/
Here's a direct quote from the article:
"The Mahogany and Dilute genes are well-documented, so definitely exist, but the array of phenotypic (visual) combinations possible when combined is little understood. The truth is, no-one really knows. It’s easy to look at a bird and conclude that it has ‘one dose of Mahogany and 2 doses of Dilute’ etc, but it’s virtually impossible to be certain; it is now believed there are other Gold diluting genes other than ‘Dilute’ as well as additional Red intensifying genes other than Mahogany. You only have to visit a Continental show to realise that it’s not quite as simply as some people would have you believe." Grant Brereton
Not only that - but as the picture caption in the article states, the lower version is correct for this breed in the USA, and the upper version is correct for this breed in the UK. same breed.
One reason that this is particularly important to me is that my thinking is that a lot of the Cream Legbar color controversy - that drove a number of people away from the breed when some owners told them that their Cream Legbars weren't Cream Legbars (meaning that the bird didn't have the genetics to dilute the red/gold to pale coloration) was head butting about cream genes -- when the visual effect may easily have been in the family of reds - and genes such as Mahogany.
Another reason it is important to me is that, as yet, I've seen no discussion of the relationship of lavender dilution genes and Mahogany red-enhancing genes.
So lucky me, my Cream Legbar flock has a lot of Mahogany, I believe, shown by these split cockerels - and that will be introduced into this project. The Isabel color is beautiful, and pastel, but there has to be something substantial to dilute to get that glowing coloration IMO.
Here's a good example of a 'color-saturated' little guy. He hatched in September from some hatching eggs that someone had gotten from here and he isn't working out for their flock
He's got some nice traits that I would select for - definite yellow legs and beak, definite white earlobes, definite barring on the saddle feathers and neck hackles and barring on his tail. In this photo his shoulder patch is very deep mahogany, and his duck-wing bar is definite -- It's a good sign that his wings are well tucked up, and he has a nice upright comb - and this guy is a split 1/2 Cream Legbar and 1/2 Isabel - and he was hatched around September of last year -- so 5-months or so old.
He has a lot of black and red for those lavender genes to work on to dilute to a definite color pattern.....
Tell you what - I really like the writing style Grant Brereton uses -- it's direct, simplified and sometimes he sneaks in humor. He's really knowledgeable and having met him in 'real life' - he is just like he sounds. Here's an article from a year ago - I was looking for the one where he explains that all chicken colors come from black and red - and the absence of these white --
however, didn't immediately put my finger on that article.
Instead I came across this one:
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/dominant-white-gene/
- He tells how black plumage can be replaced with white,
- and gives some examples
This article is closer to the one I was originally thinking of -
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/poultry-plumage/
- All chicken colors originate from black and red pigment
- any white on the feathers is the pigment distribution turned off
Here's a quote from the article:
"There are only two types of pigment when it comes to poultry: black and red. Black is quite obviously black, but the term ‘red’ describes a host of tones from the lightest lemon to the darkest mahogany; something to keep in mind." Grant Brereton
The lavender gene which IS so central to this project isn't referenced or mentioned in either article - but lavender dilutes BOTH red and black pigments so it is strong. Barring is when the pigment distribution in the feather is turned off and on as the feather grows out.
The black genetics are pretty straightforward. Black or non-black and diluted black which in this case is done by the chicken having two recessive lavender genes. In genetic terms it would be called homozygous for lavender and written as "lav/lav" - using the lower case 'L' -- The upper case is dominant and reflects what a 'wild type' bird would be expected to have -- and when the bird is a split and has one copy of the recessive 'lav' and one of the dominant 'Lav' gene it is heterozygous for lavender or "Lav/lav" -- and looks like a bird with no recessive lavender because that is the way most dominant genes work. Incomplete dominant - such as Cresting: 'Cr' and Mahogany: 'Mh' behave a bit differently..
That's all been covered previously, and as stated it is straightforward.
Then there's the red side of the equation -- and bear with me - I'm still wrapping my head around this side......
Basically Mahogany darkens any reds. There are other red enhancers and simple 'red' can be expressed in different ways.
This example from the following article is a real 'milestone' to understanding some of the effects of red influences in plumage:
It is from this article by Grant Brereton:
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/the-other-type-of-gold-red/
Here's a direct quote from the article:
"The Mahogany and Dilute genes are well-documented, so definitely exist, but the array of phenotypic (visual) combinations possible when combined is little understood. The truth is, no-one really knows. It’s easy to look at a bird and conclude that it has ‘one dose of Mahogany and 2 doses of Dilute’ etc, but it’s virtually impossible to be certain; it is now believed there are other Gold diluting genes other than ‘Dilute’ as well as additional Red intensifying genes other than Mahogany. You only have to visit a Continental show to realise that it’s not quite as simply as some people would have you believe." Grant Brereton
Not only that - but as the picture caption in the article states, the lower version is correct for this breed in the USA, and the upper version is correct for this breed in the UK. same breed.
One reason that this is particularly important to me is that my thinking is that a lot of the Cream Legbar color controversy - that drove a number of people away from the breed when some owners told them that their Cream Legbars weren't Cream Legbars (meaning that the bird didn't have the genetics to dilute the red/gold to pale coloration) was head butting about cream genes -- when the visual effect may easily have been in the family of reds - and genes such as Mahogany.
Another reason it is important to me is that, as yet, I've seen no discussion of the relationship of lavender dilution genes and Mahogany red-enhancing genes.
So lucky me, my Cream Legbar flock has a lot of Mahogany, I believe, shown by these split cockerels - and that will be introduced into this project. The Isabel color is beautiful, and pastel, but there has to be something substantial to dilute to get that glowing coloration IMO.
Here's a good example of a 'color-saturated' little guy. He hatched in September from some hatching eggs that someone had gotten from here and he isn't working out for their flock
He's got some nice traits that I would select for - definite yellow legs and beak, definite white earlobes, definite barring on the saddle feathers and neck hackles and barring on his tail. In this photo his shoulder patch is very deep mahogany, and his duck-wing bar is definite -- It's a good sign that his wings are well tucked up, and he has a nice upright comb - and this guy is a split 1/2 Cream Legbar and 1/2 Isabel - and he was hatched around September of last year -- so 5-months or so old.
He has a lot of black and red for those lavender genes to work on to dilute to a definite color pattern.....
