Lavender patterned Isabel duckwing barred - lavender brown cuckoo barred - project and genetic dis

[ChicKat]

You guys are so sweet! Would love to be your neighbor. (Mr. Rogers' neighborhood). Moving to the Pacific North West! My sister and her family are there.
Indyshent - Holy moley -- 9-years. yikes -- I will be in the Happy Hunting Ground in 9-years, that's a pretty sure bet. Good thing I will be expecting it to take a long time. :O)

I won't even be ready to put it on the market for a few months....... and this time of year -- it's kind of 'forget about it' for 2017--- the year's overwith for all intents and purposes.

 

[Kiki]

NOOOOO....that sounds very very far from me!

 

[ChicKat]

NOOOOO....that sounds very very far from me!

true...it is far. Nevertheless - there's always good ole BYC!

 

[ChicKat]

Oh, and what if my property stays on the market for 9-years? Then nothing much will change far into the future...regarding location.

Who knows, by that time, I may have chickens running around here that test clean for MS -- and then you could have your very own LPID-B hen/pullet.

You know that old saying. "Life is uncertain, so eat dessert first!".

 

[Kiki]

Oh, and what if my property stays on the market for 9-years? Then nothing much will change far into the future...regarding location.

Who knows, by that time, I may have chickens running around here that test clean for MS -- and then you could have your very own LPID-B hen/pullet.

You know that old saying. "Life is uncertain, so eat dessert first!".

You do know you are going to freeze up there right?
Yuk.

 

[ChicKat]

You do know you are going to freeze up there right?
Yuk.

LOL, maybe so. It's zone 8b ETA, the same as here

 

[ChicKat]

Pulled the plug on the incubator for the second hatch....two eggs were left unpipped and no internal pip either so they were tossed.
Hatch rate - 13/15. That's 86% ---
If anyone ever follows this path to get LPID-B df This last hatch had 3 males out of 13 chicks. That beats the statistical odds. It just goes to show that you can get lucky sometimes.

Also if anyone else follows this recipe at sometime in the future...the only ones that I think are 100% breeders for the project into the future, are the white-head-spot males.
females could be barred or non-barred -- and single-barred males won't move the project forward. That makes this one of the places where a lot of chicks once again, don't fit the project goals.

 

[ChicKat]

Correction - for the record....
Second hatch was 13/15 and of that 13...Four are head-spot males.
That gives me a total of 6 possible "sires" for a breeding when these babies grow big enough.....
4/13 is 30.76% --- Really beat the odds on that one.

Interesting side trip....
Because Cream Legbar is one of the ancestors of my brooder babies, there is a chance that the recessive cream gene could be piggy-backing unseen in any of my chickens.

For years -- cream legbars color was controversial and 'contentious' -- and a number of people subsequently deserted the breed. Understandably for a lot of reasons.

A recessive gene can be funny too... and here's a mistake I made back in 2013, that I hope never to repeat in the future.

I labeled a UK prize winning chicken as the 'gold standard' -- meaning the cream-of-the-crop ---> best of all.

At that time in 2013 CLs were just gearing up, and there was a lot of buzz here on BYC. The reason that happened is because I was running the Cream Legbar Club's website and put up a picture of the winning chicken from UK. And blew a few trumpets etc. I think it was a chicken named "Lillian" owned by Jill Rees, which started the Rees phenomena in the USA in conjunction with GFF.

Someone from UK who had the screen name 'HaHaUthinkso' was giving the USA Cream legbar club advice and encouragement....way, way back in the day.

Subsequently we tried to find the person's identity, and think that there is a strong possibility that the person was a very famous author from UK who was once the head of their rare-breeds society and a prominent poultry raiser and judge. One of his books is Exibition Poultry Keeping and his name is David Scrivener.

Very sadly, he died June 25th 2015. Here is his obit:
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-news/obituary-david-scrivener/

We will never know -- BUT,
he did call me up short on my proclamation 'Gold Standard', based on a picture and I was justly criticised. Because of that I was able to backtrack and correct a lot of it and I learned a lesson. I think we corresponded in PM about the error of my ways. . Nice person who was supportive to a fledgling Cream Legbar Club and attempt to improve the breed.

Then people got really excited about 'white sport' Legbars -- which turned out to be recessive white, and not a sport at all...and kind of traced to the Jill Rees line in the USA. Funnily enough the white ones became the latest band wagon -- even though as I understand it -- they aren't autosexing, which was the Cream Legbar trademark.

Was thinking that if someone didn't care about autosexing they could have the "Sapphire" which is Legbar X white leghorn. It would always be white because the white Leghorn has dominant white -- and the eggs would probably be blue, because white leghorn eggs are white.

Recently someone "liked" my post in this olden-days thread and so I was just checking what they "liked". And thus I came across this post by HaHaUthinkso who may have been the late David Scrivener. I'm so glad that he took the trouble to post his views all those years ago.

The "white legbar" came from an outcross --possibly by Emily de Gray - who I saw state on the Classroom in the Coop in one thread -- said she knew nothing about genetics.
The cross was to an "Amber Star" according to HaHaUthinkso.

An Amberstar is a hybrid -- and Rhode Island Red is part of the mix. It isn't clear to me if it is RIR rooster over some "silver" female -- thus would be similar to Golden Comet-- The Amber Star lays light brown eggs. ETA, some Google research says Amber star is Rhode Island White male over Rhode Island Red females-- which would be the same general genetics as a Golden Comet -- except Golden Comet is RIR male x RI White female -- so Amberstar is a "reverse cross". Not sure still - but interesting.

ETA: Posted this a few days ago, and subsequently found research that said that the Amberstar is a Rhode Island White rooster over a Rhode Island Red hen. The chicks are not autosexable by chick down, but supposedly can be feather-sexed. chicks can only be feather-sexed if one parent is slow feathering and one is fast feathering.

So THAT (e.g. light brown egg layer) would explain the greenification of Cream Legbar eggs in the Jill Rees line too.

And the genetic soup was really getting mixed up then because neither RIR nor in all likelihood the female used in "Amber Star" was duckwing and barred So male and female were probably NOT contributing to the breed's autosexing -- and THAT (e.g. genetic soup with no thought of autosexing) could explain how Jill Rees line of CLs lost autosexing too.

So here -- back in 2013 was the explanation of a ton of CL idiosyncrasies, and LOL none of us in the USA had enough background to really 'get' it.

Don't you think that is amusing ? and also another lesson learned!

Here's the link to that old thread, it's post #9..
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/white-sport-cream-legbars.827877/

So the point that I'm driving my car toward is this:
A recessive can cause 'problems' many years later....and be quite confusing. A casual outcross to increase egg size and frequency by someone who doesn't know the consequences and isn't careful to purge ALL the unwanted genes out -- can do some real detriment to a specific breed. In the case of CL -- loosing blue egg color, loosing autosexing, introducing non-'to standard' colors.

Now if our LPID-B DF birds ever were to become 'recognized' -- it would be important to breed OUT the cream gene to maintain the beauty of the coloration IMO. And pardon the pun -- but the 'cream gene' waters are so muddied, IMO, that it could give one a headache.

A spectacularly NICE thing about working with the lavender gene is that it isn't at all ambiguous -- it either IS or ISN'T lav -- and you can definitely tell from what I see.

Speaking of lavender...anyone using the BYC annual calendar for 2017? Bird picture of the moth is Porcelain d'uccle. -- A very pretty bird, wouldn't you say? And the lavender gene at work.

 

[ChicKat]

Another amazing thing about chicks -- how fast they grow. There is only 1-week's difference in age between the two little guys and the big guy.
Also look at the clean line on Mr.Twins' duckwing.

nice definition on his tail barring showing up on the sickle feathers too.

 

[Kiki]

Are those 3 males...the chicks?