Lavender patterned Isabel duckwing barred - lavender brown cuckoo barred - project and genetic dis

[ChicKat]

I have read that when hens were given the choice of a rooster with a large comb and wattles vs a rooster with a smaller comb and wattles the hens let the rooster with the larger comb and wattles mount them. So comb and wattle size does matter to hens and pullets

There's always something... with lions and lionesses it's the size of the lion's mane.

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

There's always something... with lions and lionesses it's the size of the lion's mane.

Apparently it’s a sign of having good genetics. If a hen is mated by multiple roosters in say the same day she can actually choose which sperm to use to fertilize her eggs. Chickens are amazing creatures. Sorry for getting a bit off topic

 

[RiverOtter]

Personally, I think 3 is my favorite as far as form goes, with 1 a near second, except for that comb. In my own birds, early maturity is something I heavily pick for, and I've often seen my cockerels "grow into" their combs, so I'm not bothered much by it, even though I prefer a smaller comb (it will be smaller after their first winter ) but this could very well just be me.

I like the saturation of color on 4, but to me he just doesn't have the body to back it up.

To me, 2, while he has some very good traits, he does also have the noticeable flaws you mentioned, and I would hold his flighter-than-the-others temperament against him.
Here, I don't need a bird to be snuggly, and I do like them very aware, as I free-range and we've a good many predators - BUT - I am the person that's brought food to them every day of their lives so I expect them to calm down pretty quickly once they realize it's me that has a hold of them. To the point I've gone "On second thought, nope!" and popped hens back out of the breeding pen if they don't stop making that help cry. I don't want pets, but there are plenty of reasons for me to handle a bird and I don't need them having heart attacks or getting the others upset over it.

1 I still like very much for his size, good type and very good color. looking back, he might have the best color of the bunch.

So, to me, it would be 3, 1, 4, 2
And if I lived close enough, I'd kidnap 1 for my own flock

 

[RiverOtter]

Oh, and as far as width, since you mentioned that - hands on is the only way to really tell. Feathers and attitude can be too deceiving.

 

[ChicKat]

Apparently it’s a sign of having good genetics. If a hen is mated by multiple roosters in say the same day she can actually choose which sperm to use to fertilize her eggs. Chickens are amazing creatures. Sorry for getting a bit off topic

Yep, I had also heard that a hen can reject sperm from a rooster she doesn't like. Maybe that is one reason hens are so awesome (i.e. only the best roosters are allowed to procreate). Nothing is off topic if it is about chickens -- right?
LOL

Personally, I think 3 is my favorite as far as form goes, with 1 a near second, except for that comb. In my own birds, early maturity is something I heavily pick for, and I've often seen my cockerels "grow into" their combs, so I'm not bothered much by it, even though I prefer a smaller comb (it will be smaller after their first winter ) but this could very well just be me.

I like the saturation of color on 4, but to me he just doesn't have the body to back it up.

To me, 2, while he has some very good traits, he does also have the noticeable flaws you mentioned, and I would hold his flighter-than-the-others temperament against him.

1 I still like very much for his size, good type and very good color. looking back, he might have the best color of the bunch.

So, to me, it would be 3, 1, 4, 2
And if I lived close enough, I'd kidnap 1 for my own flock

THANK you so much for your thoughts on these cockerels. Yes, I really appreciate what you have to say, it helps so much to get any additional viewpoints. Not only 'the more the merrier', but also it is possible to get 'coop blindness' -- because a pre-established idea can get stuck in your head that overshadows what is actual fact.

Not sure if squirrel tail has some correlation to 'attitude' - but #2 does seem to have a bit of attitude. As you observe, there is no substitute for hands on... for me, photos also have the ability to freeze frame and sometimes I notice stuff in a picture that I don't notice with real-life observation. Isn't that strange? Partly because chickens are often so kinetic that it is difficult to evaluate a moving target. I'm in agreement with your evaluations.

Wish that you could take #1 he is a sweetie (to me, not so much to some of his former roommates-- and he has yet to be introduced to a female). He is in a rabbit cage right now-- Very much not optimum, but he was chasing one of his roommates around, or more than one -- I'd hear screams and piles of feathers...and see a chicken running around... I attribute that to 1. Four 4-months olds in one pen that is 8X8-- a little bit crowded - although they had a bit more square footage if you add the coop floor, roof and deck.. and 2. his hormones are overwhelming him -- and he just wants to breed --(anything that moves)--- Once I had a rooster that would try to breed the ground because he was so isolated. :O( Until I have more coop space, I won't be able to set up the breeding pens -- Once the 11 chickens are gone -- plenty of space will be here. My policy is to only run 1 roo with the number of females that I put him with -- and I'll only retain 5 LPID females. Hopefully the females being older than the cockerels and the higher number of females will allow them to NOT be over bred.

Oh, and as far as width, since you mentioned that - hands on is the only way to really tell. Feathers and attitude can be too deceiving.

The other important factors are the contributions of the hens.... that's one reason that several perfectly nice females are going to be rehomed, because they have a more typical flopped over comb. Here's where we humans interfere -- because I think that the comb of a chicken, like the ears of an elephant are partly a large surface area to allow body cooling. In super heat, maybe bigger combed chickens fare better. However, like you, I prefer smaller combs.

The hen contributes more than 50% to the deal -- although only 50% of the genetics. For example, if smaller but more saturated male gets paired with a particularly large hen...his lack of size my be balanced in his chicks. etc.

Bottom line -- thanks a ton for your advice, much appreciated.

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

Yep, I had also heard that a hen can reject sperm from a rooster she doesn't like. Maybe that is one reason hens are so awesome (i.e. only the best roosters are allowed to procreate). Nothing is off topic if it is about chickens -- right?
LOL




THANK you so much for your thoughts on these cockerels. Yes, I really appreciate what you have to say, it helps so much to get any additional viewpoints. Not only 'the more the merrier', but also it is possible to get 'coop blindness' -- because a pre-established idea can get stuck in your head that overshadows what is actual fact.

Not sure if squirrel tail has some correlation to 'attitude
The hen contributes more than 50% to the deal -- although only 50% of the genetics. For example, if smaller but more saturated male gets paired with a particularly large hen...his lack of size my be balanced in his chicks. etc.
I wouldn’t bet on the fact that if you breed a small rooster to a large hen that you’ll get medium sized chickens. That happens when bantams and largefowl chickens are bred together.
Here’s an article from the APA’s website

 

[RiverOtter]

Aww, thanks! And you're welcome!

Pictures are a fantastic tool, you get to contemplate them without distraction and look for small details that don't always stand out when you're looking at one in the flesh. And some animals just have more presence ... but it doesn't mean they're the best.

I feel you on the space. My young birds have had a few things overlooked because of factors outside their (and frankly, my) control. Sometimes how it is is just how it is!
I wonder - I know that hens can hold sperm, but I also know that they do prefer fresh. Perhaps you could make 2 batches. If you put each rooster in for a week, and collect eggs from the 4th through 7th days, you'll be fairly sure of fertility and they'd be close enough you could hatch them together, mark eggs and see who produces better for you.
Some of my current youngsters, some of those eggs had spent 3 weeks in the fridge (I hadn't planned on hatching, but lost one of my few must-breed hens to an accident and stuck every egg in the house in an incubator, 28 out of 36 hatched) so I wouldn't worry overmuch about 10 day old eggs

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

My only concern with cockerel number one is that if you don’t seperate out his sons with the largest single combs you may end up with cockerels and roosters sporting combs like these. I find excessively large and floppy combs on cockerels and roosters particularly unattractive, but that’s just me

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

There is also the option of always introducing completely outside blood down the road should it be needed, it would take the project back to nearly the beginning for offspring of those pairings. Putting one of these males with an ordinary Legbar would provide splits that were double-barred for the males and single barred for the females -- and then the generation after that would give this variety again. That makes these males really the 'go to' guys for this variety.

Could you please explain splits to me and how it works? I’ve heard the term before but I’m unfamiliar with what it is.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Could you please explain splits to me and how it works? I’ve heard the term before but I’m unfamiliar with what it is.

With recessive genes it takes two copies to show. One copy gets carried sight unseen.
When a bird is carrying one copy sight unseen it is said to be split for.
Like lavender. If you breed a lavender to a black we know the offspring will all get one copy of lavender but will be black. They are called black split for lavender.