laying mash or just layersfeed amounts / feeding 2 much ?

[strangeanimal]

I would simply allow all birds to eat all they want to eat of a good quality laying mash, and I would ferment that. Put out enough in the morning that there will be enough left in the feeders to last a good part of the day. This allows the more timid birds to get their fill, even after the gluttons have filled their crops and gone away to do other chickeny things. If you see crops that are not full when you check them later in the day, you may need to put out some more feed. In an effort to save money, you are forcing yourself to work harder than you need to. Unless birds are being picked on, there is no need to separate them and feed them differently. Simply feed them what they need.




I don't understand what you are trying to say when you mention that you never know how many birds will show up to the feeders.

Am I understanding (from a previous thread) that these are battery hens, and the numbers vary b/c some hens are being added, while others are being removed? If this is so, my advice to you is to see that they have food available all day long, every day, and remove it before dark to avoid the risk of rodents. In order to meet their needs, they have to make up for lost time. So, no formula is going to work in this case. If you can find access to a good cheap source of animal protein, that would be a good additive. Kitty kibble, cat fish pellets, old freezer burned meat, all could be worked into diet as a short term protein boost. You would have to look at nutritional labels, and work out the protein percentages to do this safely.

we are indd dealing with what you just mention , they come and go and the numbers vary , today I got 40 instead of 25+ ! there was a problem with one of the members that did miscalculate ! so now I am really STUCK , again bought them new layingmash as it keeps going into their stomachs like it is all they feed on and that is the MAIN issue , these birds are NOT supposed to only eat layingmash ! we are trying to get them to live like normal hens , which means this :
eating greens ! we feed these every single day FRESH storebought or given to us as support behind the counters , freshly fruits that I wanna bite into when I go get it ! these fruits are totally of the best and highest quality ! what do these birds do ? they leave it untill I have to throw it on the compostpile ! about the feed you have mentioned , that is already what we are doing here , so it is just their old habit kicking in after checking with the farmer ,
this morning already we had a conversation with the man who cries his eyes out constantly saying he is so sorry and will never hold poultry again so he vowed to us , we asked him about why the chickens are not willing to sctratch and eat from bugs they find but only gather around the feeders for layingmash , his reply is this : " that is all they have ever known so I think it is out of habit ? " yes totally what we already expected , they are behaving like batteryhens and not like a free bird in green grass where they get plenty of other nutritious goods and they leave it just be , today I even noticed this : as mentioned earlier on they refuse grains and take only the layingpellets out , guess what I am dealing with in the yard ? a sunflower already of the hight that it has a little bulb soon becoming a small flower , I think this tells enough ??? we have sprouted grain everywhere ! (wild sunflower , not the black giant as this is cracked grain because they gotta adapt to feed that fits their poorly looking beaks ) , now I already said I give them fresh goodies too , every single day we need to toss those away , almost everything of it , the only one that had been eating it and is now out of the bunch of redheads is the orpington , behaving like a normal chicken , also eating layingmash but very happy with grains fruits , veggies and all the scraps , and other nutritious things . we took her out because she is not suposed to eat that much as the other birds only and ONLY eat layingmash ! that is the reason why they should NOT be given full acces to this , secondly they are not acting like a normal chicken due to the old feed they know , I now have decided to give them one day without laying mash , feed them only all day acces to FRESH GREENS , FRUIT , GRAINMIX which is a complete feed , so they are gonna have to eat this if they are hungry ! if not today , tomorrow same story : no more layingmash ! besides the grains contain already pellets so laying should not be an issue . next to this they get a lot of catf , other nutritious things as I have already mentioned .
But please is there ANYONE that knows the amount of feed a chicken a day ???? I am NOT asking for other help , seriously appreciate it but it is so annoying that not even the bag mentions how much a chicken AVERAGE needs per day of feed , on none of the bags and also the www is letting me down , one site tells it is 100 grams , the other says it is 69 grams , and another tells you it is 50 grams , I mean come on ! How much does a chicken need in feed per day please , getting desperate here .
ty for your well thinking along with me already !

 

[strangeanimal]

Try fermenting your feed; no waste & end up using less feed, nutritionally beneficial & poop is firmer, not so stinky. I don't feed layer, keep grit & Oyster Shells on the side with fermented Flock Raiser. I have 4 BOs @ 28wks, one is laying, I mix 2 cups per day of dry feed to equal amount of water, feed couple of heaping scoops 2x a day & add more dry feed to what's remaining for the next day. A 50# bag of feed lasts me a little over 2 months/12wks.

aren't u lucky ! ok so I read two cups , I have indeed tried fermented feed but they look at you like " what in the world did you do with our food nooooooo omg our food is trashed up !!! what now ! " so for now this will have to wait untill they start to show some interest in other goodies and behave like a chicken some more , I think the amount sounds good , I give it a go ! but how annoying not even the www gives a correct ratio , isnt it ? thanks for your reply as well !!

 

[rebrascora]

I honestly cannot answer your question as regards how much food and if you have failed to find the answer on the www then there is little point in me trying. What I will say is that you are perhaps trying to achieve too much with these birds in a short time scale. You will not manage to break the habits of a lifetime in a few days or weeks between receiving and rehoming them. Also, if you are constantly adding to and removing birds from the flock, this will add to the commotion and stress they are under trying to readjust and the "cannibalism" you are seeing may be pecking order issues with the regular addition of new birds.
Something else to consider with the treats is that apart from not recognising them as food, if they have been debeaked, they may not actually be able to eat them.

A third thing occurs to me, that if these are spent production birds, they will be moulting and therefore look thin and in poor condition. Production birds will naturally be lean, so you may be trying to fatten them up when it is not necessary. I would say that if you are prepared to remove the feed they know and understand and try to make them eat the veggies and treats that may not provide them with what they need, then you would at least be better to give fermented feed another go and cut out all the veggies and treats.... leave those for their new owner to introduce once they have become less institutionalised. Cutting back on the veggies should save you some money and from what you say they are mostly just wasting anyway. If they have nothing else but fermented feed for a few days they will learn to eat it and perhaps that spell of not eating will give them the opportunity to learn to do other things. You could scatter a little of their mash on the top of the fermented feed to get them started on it. I would also stop giving them mixed corn. It is of no benefit to them and you seem to be saying that they don't eat it anyway, so why waste money on it. It makes them fat with fat (rather than muscle) which is not really what you want and can cause health problems.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I think you are trying to do too much too soon. Putting down food scraps that they won't eat is going to encourage a hoard of rodents sooner or later even on the compost pile, so there is no gain in that an plenty to lose. A major rodent infestation will cost you more money and lots of worry to sort out. Try to just simplify everything. Give them plenty of separate food and watering stations to prevent too much pecking. Give only fermented feed with a sprinkling of the feed they recognise on top and be firm. Cut out the mixed corn altogether and sprouted grains because they just don't understand that it is food or perhaps cannot peck at it because they have been debeaked.

I would also keep smaller separate pens with newcomers in rather than mix and match all the time which will unsettle them. If they have been caged most of their lives, they will not have learned to socialise, so establishing a pecking order will be more complex as they probably do not know how to show submission or recognise submission if it is shown.

I hope some of what I have said makes some sense and is helpful to your situation. It is always difficult to understand another person's situation just from reading their words and whilst your English is very good, it makes it easier for misunderstanding to occur when a second language is involved, so apologies if I have misinterpreted some of what you have written.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[lazy gardener]

Excellent post, Barbara. I agree with your assessment, and your suggestion of keeping birds in smaller pens, and not constantly adding/subtracting. Also, agreed, that if birds are debeaked, they may very well not be able to manage the other foods/grains/fruits/veg. and even the free range grasses and insects. Debeaking is a cruel inhumane treatment. It is a result of the factory farm mentality: Profits at the expense of humane treatment.

As for OP ? re: how much food/bird/day: You will never find a definitive answer. B/C it depends on the feed, the bird, and all other conditions. Some birds have a better feed conversion rate. Some feed conversion ratios allow for waste, including spillage, and loss to rodents/wild birds. For these birds (in OP situation), being in poor condition, debeaked, and depleted from a long laying cycle, and most likely going into molt, I'd want to offer .3#/bird/day. I would aim for 18% protein. I would not depend on any other food items to supply nutrients to them at this time. However, I'd still keep offering them.

As for fermented feed, it takes birds a while to acclimate to it. And indeed, as you have stated, they look at it and feel as though you have betrayed them. If you are keeping these birds in your own flock, long term, I'd suggest getting them switched to FF. But, if you are simply a way station, providing safe haven until they are rehomed, I'd simply give them plenty of what they already know. Offer other stuff, but give them all of their nutritional needs as mash, if that is what they are familiar with.