Leg injury/Sciatic damage or Marek’s?? Need Advice Please

[Corgisbunniesnchicks]

On July 29 we noticed our 15 week old RIR bantam was laying over in the corner, not acting normal. We got her out and she couldn’t walk. After examining her, it seemed she had somehow injured her left leg or hip—it was tender. The first day or so she was obviously in pain so I gave her some carprofen which helped and within 5 days she was standing on it again, eating and drinking great, seemingly on the mend. After a few days of real encouragement she started to decline again, although she has never lost her appetite. Her legs started to go straight back behind her. Of course I have been very worried that it is Marek’s even though all of the chicks were vaccinated from Cackle. So I have been reading everything I can about it. It definitely seems like something neurological or at the very least maybe a damaged sciatic nerve. The last week or so she has been more restless. She flaps her wings and kicks her legs a lot—sometimes it’s to get in a better position, sometimes it’s because she has pooped, but other times we don’t know why.
I’ve been using kids face masks for diapers which works pretty well and all natural diaper cream on her bottom. She gets real still when I clean her up because she loves to be clean.
My husband made her a wheelchair out of pvc —I just need to make the fabric part. I made a makeshift sling chair that she used for a while but now she just flaps her wings when she’s in it.
Does anyone have any thoughts about what this might be? If it is Marek’s, would she last this long? What are the chances of a chicken getting it after the vaccine? Why would she seem tender in that leg and improve, then go downhill?
I know there are a lot of opinions out there. Perhaps many would think she has no quality of life and it’s time to end it. I have a couple of issues with that. First, I have a 6 yo little girl who has faithfully and tenderly taken care of this little pullet—even gotten up in the middle of the night to reposition her—we both have. Second, it’s very hard for me to put an animal down that’s still excited about eating and drinking. And lastly, I just can’t do the deed but my vet charges $125.
I forgot to mention I’ve also been giving her Poly-Vi-Sol infant vitamin drops without iron in her water for about 10 days. Before that I was giving her poultry vitamins and electrolytes. I give her scrambled egg 3 or 4 times a week.

 

[azygous]

A chicken that has been vaccinated for Marek's can still get infected if exposed directly to the virus. The vaccine only encourages the development of resistance to the virus and usually prevents Marek's tumors. Inflammation of the nerves can still occur, though, producing the symptoms you see in this bird.

What may be affecting your pullet may be another avian virus similar to Marek's that has no vaccine to prevent it. I have lymphoid leucosis in my flock, and last season, I had three pullets come down with these same symptoms. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...update-now-another-pullet-going-lame.1432738/

There really is no way to get a real diagnosis without testing, and the bird needs to die for that. I tried to treat my pullets with various antibiotitcs and vitamins, but they all continued to go downhill until they were no longer able to deal with eating or getting around. Finally, I took the third pullet to my state lab still alive, they euthanized her, and I found out it was the virus that was already in my flock all along that was responsible.

My thread is documentation of every single thing I tried, and there may be some ideas that you could try. If this isn't an avian virus, something in my thread may just work for your pullet.

 

[Corgisbunniesnchicks]

A chicken that has been vaccinated for Marek's can still get infected if exposed directly to the virus. The vaccine only encourages the development of resistance to the virus and usually prevents Marek's tumors. Inflammation of the nerves can still occur, though, producing the symptoms you see in this bird.

What may be affecting your pullet may be another avian virus similar to Marek's that has no vaccine to prevent it. I have lymphoid leucosis in my flock, and last season, I had three pullets come down with these same symptoms. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...update-now-another-pullet-going-lame.1432738/

There really is no way to get a real diagnosis without testing, and the bird needs to die for that. I tried to treat my pullets with various antibiotitcs and vitamins, but they all continued to go downhill until they were no longer able to deal with eating or getting around. Finally, I took the third pullet to my state lab still alive, they euthanized her, and I found out it was the virus that was already in my flock all along that was responsible.

My thread is documentation of every single thing I tried, and there may be some ideas that you could try. If this isn't an avian virus, something in my thread may just work for your pullet.

Wow!! What an amazingly informative thread—heartbreaking—but so helpful! I read every single post—it took a while—but I feel like I have some things to try. I am SO new to all this. I try to read and research as much as possible but nothing can replace good old-fashioned experience.
When our Ruby first went lame she was breathing heavily and I was scared so I did “throw” more at her. I gave her amoxicillin and carprofen for a few days, as well as some immune boosting herbs. I stopped the the amoxicillin and carprofen when she started improving. I completely forgot about the amoxicillin until I read your thread so I decided to try it again—I gave her both amoxi and carprofen last night. I’ve been giving her Poly-Vi-Sol infant vitamin drops but since reading your thread I’m going to give her additional B and E vitamins.
In your thread when you described the differences between June and May—May’s leg having no strength and June’s legs having strength but no control toward the end. Ruby is more like June. She has plenty of strength but no control—sometimes when she’s on my lap with her legs out straight behind her she will start kicking them and it looks like she’s swimming. She would also do the tumbleweed thing if we didn’t have her propped up. She has great control of her neck muscles though, so she eats and drinks well.
I feel like whatever “it” is, there’s probably not a lot of hope for Ruby but as long as she’s eating and drinking and seems pretty happy, we’re willing to take of her and give her the best days possible.
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to send me that link.

 

[azygous]

The symptoms do not strictly point to one cause or another. Here on BYC, recently we've had success stories using the B-complex and vitamin E therapy.

Please update this thread as you progress. As you've said, there is nothing like experience to learn from.

I hope like crazy that yours will be one of the success stories.

 

[Corgisbunniesnchicks]

I don’t have a lot to update on Ruby. Since Friday, I have given her amoxicillin once a day, carprofen twice a day, and vitamins E and B complex once daily. There’s no great improvement yet but I keep looking for little glimmers of hope and occasionally I think I find them. She definitely happy—demanding—but happy when all her needs are met. So we will continue treatment I guess and hope for some progress.
I finished her little “chair” and we tried putting her in it last night with some egg in the food dish. She did well at first but then started flapping and was able to get out. I’ve made some more adjustments so hopefully it will go better next time.
Any thoughts on how long I should try the amoxicillin? Also, I may run out of carprofen eventually so should I switch to aspirin? I know the two can’t overlap.

 

[azygous]

Chicken chairs, I've discovered, have limited usefulness. Even a very disabled chicken won't be able tolerate the confinement for very long periods. My disabled chickens were able to get themselves out of their chair after about an hour, but it was long enough for them to be able to get some food eaten and to be able to be upright for a period.

Aspirin at 81 grains, twice a day is an effective pain reliever. Amoxy should be give for a max of ten days. If it hasn't worked by then, it isn't likely to.

 

[Sally PB]

Following, as I did with May's thread.

Thank you both for taking such good care of your chickens.

And, @Corgisbunniesnchicks, give your daughter a hug from me too.

 

[Corgisbunniesnchicks]

Awww…thanks, @Sally PB, I definitely will!

 

[Corgisbunniesnchicks]

Another update on Ruby…

I have finished her 10-day round of amoxicillin and continuing vitamin B complex, vitamin E daily. I also give her aspirin as needed, and have continued the infant vitamin drops in her water. She continues to have a good appetite. I give her 1 bantam egg per day with moistened chick starter. Now that she has finished the amoxicillin I have quit giving her Greek yogurt.

We haven’t really tried the sling chair anymore. It’s just easier to do “physical therapy” in my lap. She is putting weight on her left leg and mostly supporting herself but the right leg needs work. The strange thing is the right leg was the first one she started to pull in (no longer just going straight out behind her). But now the right leg seems less coordinated at the very least, and possibly weaker—it’s hard to tell at this point. There are so many unknowns with this because I don’t know what I’m dealing with. But if she continued as she is now, I believe she could learn to balance on the one leg.
She seems very happy and content. I continue to keep her clean using the kids face mask, baby wipes, and diaper rash cream. We have given her baths but she gets so cold afterwards that I try to avoid that as much as possible. I got a $15 white noise/lullaby machine from Amazon which she loves. She now sleeps all night without interruption.
So we will continue caring for her and loving her, trying to rehab her legs—and hope for the best. I love to see her sitting in the sun half asleep and hear her trill—it makes me happy!

 

[azygous]

Man! And I thought I pampered my chickens!

When you have to wash her, use a warm hair dryer on her to dry her. She'll adore it. First time I ever used a hair dryer on a hen, it really surprised me when she stood very still and seemed to be enjoying it. The sound never seems to bother them, either.