Marans... Not APA Approved???

[snowbird]

Quote:
Do not know for sure but would assume that numbers of BC would be the first choice. The best choice would probably be wheaten. My opinion is that none are good enough at this point to be accepted. Don

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Most any breed will be better in the original country. APA has their own rules to go by and a lot is up to the promoting group what is included in the Standards, sometimes the standards are just not written up very good, and they are not easy to change once they are accepted. Don

That is a real shame when it is not easy to change once they are accepted. A real shame! I found alot of flaws in the standards and it opens more questions than answers. Some of the Welsummer folks expressed desire to "update" and add more information about the standards.

Yes I can understand if there are several origins within the breed but they should give details on what goes and what is not acceptable. I remember the fluffy tail heads in the Wheaten Maran thread going on in there and that should be included somewhere if they are accepted OR DQ/fault. As for the leg featherings, one must be careful, want profuse featherings almost like Cochin or something similar to a Faverolles.

Silkies, it really stumped me because there are several breeders out there that has their "trademark" for example, Hattrick Silkies vs hatchery Silkies.....how much crest you want on them and how much of an extreme of "poofness" required in a Silkie.

Now how would one want to amend changes of the SOP? There are some birds out there that are poor quality and they only breed of their class and they get ribbons. Not a good example we want. I've seen too many Barred Rocks that won BOS/BOB when the back part of their comb looked like someone pulled the "putty" end of the comb and it did not come back in shape. UGLY!

The only way to change an accepted standard would be to get a group together and write up the changes you would like to submit and send to the APA, The standard revision Committee would take a look and go from there. The Chairman of this committee is Walt Leonard and if it were me I would contact him with my concerns, write your concerns down on paper before contacting him. Don

 

[OSUman]

Quote:
Do not know for sure but would assume that numbers of BC would be the first choice. The best choice would probably be wheaten. My opinion is that none are good enough at this point to be accepted. Don

agreed

 

[PepsNick]

This is really interesting to read. I, myself and not going to say anything because I'm not very SOP knowledgeable, considering I haven't even ordered my book yet.

And to my understanding, there is a Bantam SOP?

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Nick, the ABA also has a Bantam Standard but the Marans are listed in the inactive section, does not say what varieties are approved. Don

 

[OSUman]

Quote:
There is a sepereate Bantam Standard published by the ABA, Marans are accepted to the ABA

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
That is a real shame when it is not easy to change once they are accepted. A real shame! I found alot of flaws in the standards and it opens more questions than answers. Some of the Welsummer folks expressed desire to "update" and add more information about the standards.

Yes I can understand if there are several origins within the breed but they should give details on what goes and what is not acceptable. I remember the fluffy tail heads in the Wheaten Maran thread going on in there and that should be included somewhere if they are accepted OR DQ/fault. As for the leg featherings, one must be careful, want profuse featherings almost like Cochin or something similar to a Faverolles.

Silkies, it really stumped me because there are several breeders out there that has their "trademark" for example, Hattrick Silkies vs hatchery Silkies.....how much crest you want on them and how much of an extreme of "poofness" required in a Silkie.

Now how would one want to amend changes of the SOP? There are some birds out there that are poor quality and they only breed of their class and they get ribbons. Not a good example we want. I've seen too many Barred Rocks that won BOS/BOB when the back part of their comb looked like someone pulled the "putty" end of the comb and it did not come back in shape. UGLY!

From what I understand, the way the APA judges judge, is between the contestants, comparisons if you will of all the birds present, rather than judging the birds against the SOP. In my opinion, if NONE of the birds in the show do not even faintly resemble the SOP, the ribbons should be with held. That's how so much junk gets out into the breeding world as "show winning stock" when in reality, they should be culls. What's the point of having an SOP if the judges don't use it accordingly?? JMHO

The birds are judged by the SOP. If they don't have type, there is nothing to compare. IF the birds have the correct conformation, then they are judged by comparison with the judge picking the bird that most meets the SOP description. In the old days the points were used in a whole class and the deductions of points noted on the coop cards. If we did that now, it would take a week to judge a poultry show. For whatever reason, some judges do place an inferior bird, but I don['t give first place to a bird that doesn't look at least close to the SOP description. The back part of the comb is worth 1/2 pint out of 100.
Most of the junk out there that says "show winning stock" is put up for sale by people who do not tell the truth.

The SOP is printed but will not be available for sale until the beginning of Feb, unless the shipping goes quicker than normal. I have mine.......

It is best to read the front part of the SOP as well as the breed section. A lot of the things people assume that have been omitted are there.

The blue Silkie ilustrations are in the 2010 SOP. The self blues were only qualified a few weeks ago at Shawnee, so they are not in there. Just could not pull that off, since it was already printed.

RE: BCM's....we will know in early Feb. Pat Malone, past President of the APA and SOP member will do the judging. They will not pass if they do not meet the descriptions (color and type). We did not pass them the first time because warm bodies do not count in the 50 bird requirement. There will have to be 50 birds that are worthy. We will be really looking at the younger birds to see what kind of progress has been made since the last qualifying attempt. The Marans description we are using will be very close to the French version. The Brits have clean shanks and toes.

RE: APA input on the Serama standards.....there has been no APA input on their standard. I have not even seen it yet, nor have the APA paperwork requirements been forwarded to me. The ABA has had the first part of their qualifying meet however and they may have given the Serama people some input.

Probably missed a few things, but will catch them later.

Walt

 

[PepsNick]

Quote:
From what I understand, the way the APA judges judge, is between the contestants, comparisons if you will of all the birds present, rather than judging the birds against the SOP. In my opinion, if NONE of the birds in the show do not even faintly resemble the SOP, the ribbons should be with held. That's how so much junk gets out into the breeding world as "show winning stock" when in reality, they should be culls. What's the point of having an SOP if the judges don't use it accordingly?? JMHO

The birds are judged by the SOP. If they don't have type, there is nothing to compare. IF the birds have the correct conformation, then they are judged by comparison with the judge picking the bird that most meets the SOP description. In the old days the points were used in a whole class and the deductions of points noted on the coop cards. If we did that now, it would take a week to judge a poultry show. For whatever reason, some judges do place an inferior bird, but I don['t give first place to a bird that doesn't look at least close to the SOP description. The back part of the comb is worth 1/2 pint out of 100.
Most of the junk out there that says "show winning stock" is put up for sale by people who do not tell the truth.

The SOP is printed but will not be available for sale until the beginning of Feb, unless the shipping goes quicker than normal. I have mine.......

It is best to read the front part of the SOP as well as the breed section. A lot of the things people assume that have been omitted are there.

The blue Silkie ilustrations are in the 2010 SOP. The self blues were only qualified a few weeks ago at Shawnee, so they are not in there. Just could not pull that off, since it was already printed.

RE: BCM's....we will know in early Feb. Pat Malone, past President of the APA and SOP member will do the judging. They will not pass if they do not meet the descriptions (color and type). We did not pass them the first time because warm bodies do not count in the 50 bird requirement. There will have to be 50 birds that are worthy. We will be really looking at the younger birds to see what kind of progress has been made since the last qualifying attempt. The Marans description we are using will be very close to the French version. The Brits have clean shanks and toes.

RE: APA input on the Serama standards.....there has been no APA input on their standard. I have not even seen it yet, nor have the APA paperwork requirements been forwarded to me. The ABA has had the first part of their qualifying meet however and they may have given the Serama people some input.

Probably missed a few things, but will catch them later.

Walt

Hello, Walt. I was wondering when we'd hear from you. Thanks so much for clearing up some questions.

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
Along the same lines the UK Standard for breeds of American origin is very different than the American Standard for those breeds.
In other breeds eg mediterraneans & Asiatics the UK Standards differ from ours as well. I have a copy of the UK Standard & to my eye the American versions are much more pleasing.
As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
From what I understand, the way the APA judges judge, is between the contestants, comparisons if you will of all the birds present, rather than judging the birds against the SOP. In my opinion, if NONE of the birds in the show do not even faintly resemble the SOP, the ribbons should be with held. That's how so much junk gets out into the breeding world as "show winning stock" when in reality, they should be culls. What's the point of having an SOP if the judges don't use it accordingly?? JMHO

The birds are judged by the SOP. If they don't have type, there is nothing to compare. IF the birds have the correct conformation, then they are judged by comparison with the judge picking the bird that most meets the SOP description. In the old days the points were used in a whole class and the deductions of points noted on the coop cards. If we did that now, it would take a week to judge a poultry show. For whatever reason, some judges do place an inferior bird, but I don['t give first place to a bird that doesn't look at least close to the SOP description. The back part of the comb is worth 1/2 pint out of 100.
Most of the junk out there that says "show winning stock" is put up for sale by people who do not tell the truth.The SOP is printed but will not be available for sale until the beginning of Feb, unless the shipping goes quicker than normal. I have mine.......

It is best to read the front part of the SOP as well as the breed section. A lot of the things people assume that have been omitted are there.

The blue Silkie ilustrations are in the 2010 SOP. The self blues were only qualified a few weeks ago at Shawnee, so they are not in there. Just could not pull that off, since it was already printed.

RE: BCM's....we will know in early Feb. Pat Malone, past President of the APA and SOP member will do the judging. They will not pass if they do not meet the descriptions (color and type). We did not pass them the first time because warm bodies do not count in the 50 bird requirement. There will have to be 50 birds that are worthy. We will be really looking at the younger birds to see what kind of progress has been made since the last qualifying attempt. The Marans description we are using will be very close to the French version. The Brits have clean shanks and toes.

RE: APA input on the Serama standards.....there has been no APA input on their standard. I have not even seen it yet, nor have the APA paperwork requirements been forwarded to me. The ABA has had the first part of their qualifying meet however and they may have given the Serama people some input.

Probably missed a few things, but will catch them later.

Walt

Thanks Walt! Glad to know that some do judge by the SOP instead of the comparison method. Warm bodies (number counts only) should not count unless the quality is there. I tend to agree with Don, that unless there is a consistent showing of SOP quality birds, that maybe it is too soon for approval. On the other hand, it would make breeding towards an SOP goal a tad easier if there was something to actually breed towards! As we all know, the perfect bird/flock, will never be obtained, but to aim towards that ideal is what it's all about.

IF, the BC Marans is approved at the Newnan show, when do you see the Marans SOP showing up in the next APA standards book? Maybe another variety or two will be approved within that time frame? Thanks Walt, your input is always appreciated!!