Marans... Not APA Approved???

[KCchickens]

I'm really REALLY hoping they finally accept the BCM into the SOP. I'd be so happy!
I'm hoping to contribute by bringing one of my ladies (. Wouldve brought more but the others and their roo were a little beat up from treading). I can't just sit by and watch our chance just walk on by

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
There are a few differences between the APA & ABA Standards & there has long been discussion about resolving these differences. The differences are more semantic than substantiative. I don't, for example, see two distinctly different interpretations of Salmon Faverolle females. I'm not sure just what the barrier is to resolving the language differences between the two Standards but I'm not very involved in chicken politics.

 

[NYREDS]

Thanks Walt! Glad to know that some do judge by the SOP instead of the comparison method. Warm bodies (number counts only) should not count unless the quality is there. I tend to agree with Don, that unless there is a consistent showing of SOP quality birds, that maybe it is too soon for approval. On the other hand, it would make breeding towards an SOP goal a tad easier if there was something to actually breed towards! As we all know, the perfect bird/flock, will never be obtained, but to aim towards that ideal is what it's all about.

There is a Standard that was proposed by the Marans Club & accepted by the APA. That is the Standard the judges used at the first qualifying meet & will use at the upcoming meet. There has to be a standard before there can be a qualifying meet. If not how would the judges possibly judge the meet?
BTW as far as I know all judges judge according to the Standard. There are some judges who will award a first place to an inferior bird if that's all there is in the class. It matters little since that bird obviously won't advance but I agree with Walt. I have often started a class off with second place when there was no bird deserving of first. I have even on very rare occasion not placed a class at all when it was a small class of birds none of which approached the Standard.​

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
There are a few differences between the APA & ABA Standards & there has long been discussion about resolving these differences. The differences are more semantic than substantiative. I don't, for example, see two distinctly different interpretations of Salmon Faverolle females. I'm not sure just what the barrier is to resolving the language differences between the two Standards but I'm not very involved in chicken politics.

There is no longer a Unification Committee between the ABA/APA, but we have been able to resolve several differences in the SOP's. There are more to be done. I feel the ABA/APA standards committee's are working very well together. The ABA President, Jeff Halbach is very supportive of unifying the Standards.

Changes to the Standards usually come from a breed club and/or from breeders with 5 years or more experience in the breed/variety. We respond to all input.
Walt

 

[PepsNick]

Quote:
Great! Being in GA, maybe I'll come- even though im not currently housing any Marans, I guess it'll be fun to go.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
There is a Standard that was proposed by the Marans Club & accepted by the APA. That is the Standard the judges used at the first qualifying meet & will use at the upcoming meet. There has to be a standard before there can be a qualifying meet. If not how would the judges possibly judge the meet?
BTW as far as I know all judges judge according to the Standard. There are some judges who will award a first place to an inferior bird if that's all there is in the class. It matters little since that bird obviously won't advance but I agree with Walt. I have often started a class off with second place when there was no bird deserving of first. I have even on very rare occasion not placed a class at all when it was a small class of birds none of which approached the Standard.



From what I've seen, that standard has been "tweaked" quite a bit since the last approval attempt? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's changed a lot since I've been following the proposed standard.

As for the second quote in bold, bravo to you for not giving 1st to something non-deserving, perhaps in some cases second place was indeed too generous as well. I've seen notable folks garnering many ribbons though, with some sub standard birds that I would've culled from the flock. Hopefully not, yet I bet they will, show up in Newnan. I guess we'll see how it plays out in February??

 

[EweSheep]

Quote:
There is a Standard that was proposed by the Marans Club & accepted by the APA. That is the Standard the judges used at the first qualifying meet & will use at the upcoming meet. There has to be a standard before there can be a qualifying meet. If not how would the judges possibly judge the meet?
BTW as far as I know all judges judge according to the Standard. There are some judges who will award a first place to an inferior bird if that's all there is in the class. It matters little since that bird obviously won't advance but I agree with Walt. I have often started a class off with second place when there was no bird deserving of first. I have even on very rare occasion not placed a class at all when it was a small class of birds none of which approached the Standard.



From what I've seen, that standard has been "tweaked" quite a bit since the last approval attempt? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's changed a lot since I've been following the proposed standard.

As for the second quote in bold, bravo to you for not giving 1st to something non-deserving, perhaps in some cases second place was indeed too generous as well. I've seen notable folks garnering many ribbons though, with some sub standard birds that I would've culled from the flock. Hopefully not, yet I bet they will, show up in Newnan. I guess we'll see how it plays out in February??

I love a judge who would award a bird less than a second place if the bird/or the only breeder's flock there in one breed shown at a show. Too many times I've seen either ONE breed bird of its class gets placed first every time because simply, there are no other competitors. Or a breeder's stock in one breed at a show, getting ALL the ribbons of its breed class. They would turn around and brag about this or that, then us serious breeders take one look and say "what is that judge thinking!!!!". I am sure you have heard it many times over the years as a judge, both NYReds and Fowlman, that you often wondered if you made the right decision? I know judges make mistakes, they are human but if you have majority of the seriious breeders looking at you if you sprouted two horns out of your head for choosing an inferior bird that there might be a town riot after the show is over. Hope it never happens to you guys.

Are the judges afraid they will get shouted down by exhibitors for being honest and you placed the birds less than first or second place? I can picture some would be yelling in your face "Well, this bird won FIRST PLACE at this so and so show and YOU can not even place my prized rooster to be first????!!!!" I would hate to be in a confrontation.

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
There is a Standard that was proposed by the Marans Club & accepted by the APA. That is the Standard the judges used at the first qualifying meet & will use at the upcoming meet. There has to be a standard before there can be a qualifying meet. If not how would the judges possibly judge the meet?
BTW as far as I know all judges judge according to the Standard. There are some judges who will award a first place to an inferior bird if that's all there is in the class. It matters little since that bird obviously won't advance but I agree with Walt. I have often started a class off with second place when there was no bird deserving of first. I have even on very rare occasion not placed a class at all when it was a small class of birds none of which approached the Standard.



From what I've seen, that standard has been "tweaked" quite a bit since the last approval attempt? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's changed a lot since I've been following the proposed standard.

As for the second quote in bold, bravo to you for not giving 1st to something non-deserving, perhaps in some cases second place was indeed too generous as well. I've seen notable folks garnering many ribbons though, with some sub standard birds that I would've culled from the flock. Hopefully not, yet I bet they will, show up in Newnan. I guess we'll see how it plays out in February??

If there's only one bird & it's placed second I think that makes the point as clearly as placing it third would. I don't hear many people boasting of having gotten a second at a show.
As to "notable folks" showing sub-standard birds, how then did they become notable?

 

[EweSheep]

Quote:


From what I've seen, that standard has been "tweaked" quite a bit since the last approval attempt? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's changed a lot since I've been following the proposed standard.

As for the second quote in bold, bravo to you for not giving 1st to something non-deserving, perhaps in some cases second place was indeed too generous as well. I've seen notable folks garnering many ribbons though, with some sub standard birds that I would've culled from the flock. Hopefully not, yet I bet they will, show up in Newnan. I guess we'll see how it plays out in February??

If there's only one bird & it's placed second I think that makes the point as clearly as placing it third would. I don't hear many people boasting of having gotten a second at a show.
As to "notable folks" showing sub-standard birds, how then did they become notable?

Money? Favors?

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
If there's only one bird & it's placed second I think that makes the point as clearly as placing it third would. I don't hear many people boasting of having gotten a second at a show.
As to "notable folks" showing sub-standard birds, how then did they become notable?

Money? Position? Politics?? Sheer gall in advertising??? You know you've seen the game, I'm quite sure??