Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Black and Blue Marans are rare and hard to find.......so if you have them, then yes, I would keep them seperate from your Coppers.
It does not muddy the water having the blue gene......the blue gene is a dilute of black........all it does is change everything that would have normally been black on a bird to blue. With the Coppers it does not change the copper pattern on the Black Coppers or the Blue Coppers, but a double dose of the blue gene (which creates a Splash) will affect the coppering on a Splash Copper bird.....it interupts the pattern and a person may only see flecks of copper. This is not the same with solid black, blue and splash birds as they do not have a pattern to interupt.
One copy of the blue gene dilutes black to blue, 2 copies of the blue gene dilutes even further to Splash.

Thanks... I don't have Blue or Black I have Blue Copper and Black Copper sorry for the confusion. SO a Black Copper from a FBCM x Blue Copper Marans is still a regular Black Copper and I don't need to explain that when I sell them? they would never produce a Blue Copper if breed to another Black Copper from that same mating?

A Black Copper produced from a Blue Copper to Black Copper mating is still a regular ol' Black Copper and if bred back to a Black Copper will never produce a Blue Copper, unless.....you have a Black Copper that is really a very dark dark Blue Copper that appears black....this does happen. Blue can sometimes express so dark that it appears almost black and sometimes folks don't know that they have a very dark blue until they hatch eggs and a blue chick pops out, then the question of why did this blue chick happen is asked. This is where test mating comes in very handy.
I have a very dark blue copper roo that was suppose to be a Black Copper and until he reached the age of 6 mos. he looked identical to a BC but had some lacing going on on his chest...I test mated him to a Barred Rock (a genetically black bird) and got blue babies.

 

[DMRippy]

Quote:
Thanks... I don't have Blue or Black I have Blue Copper and Black Copper sorry for the confusion. SO a Black Copper from a FBCM x Blue Copper Marans is still a regular Black Copper and I don't need to explain that when I sell them? they would never produce a Blue Copper if breed to another Black Copper from that same mating?

A Black Copper produced from a Blue Copper to Black Copper mating is still a regular ol' Black Copper and if bred back to a Black Copper will never produce a Blue Copper, unless.....you have a Black Copper that is really a very dark dark Blue Copper that appears black....this does happen. Blue can sometimes express so dark that it appears almost black and sometimes folks don't know that they have a very dark blue until they hatch eggs and a blue chick pops out, then the question of why did this blue chick happen is asked. This is where test mating comes in very handy.
I have a very dark blue copper roo that was suppose to be a Black Copper and until he reached the age of 6 mos. he looked identical to a BC but had some lacing going on on his chest...I test mated him to a Barred Rock (a genetically bird) and got blue babies.

Thanks! Now it is all clear! I should probably tell any buyer that there is the possibility that the blacks COULD be a really dark blue. I need more pens.... Now I just need eggs so I can start breeding these lookers

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
A Black Copper produced from a Blue Copper to Black Copper mating is still a regular ol' Black Copper and if bred back to a Black Copper will never produce a Blue Copper, unless.....you have a Black Copper that is really a very dark dark Blue Copper that appears black....this does happen. Blue can sometimes express so dark that it appears almost black and sometimes folks don't know that they have a very dark blue until they hatch eggs and a blue chick pops out, then the question of why did this blue chick happen is asked. This is where test mating comes in very handy.
I have a very dark blue copper roo that was suppose to be a Black Copper and until he reached the age of 6 mos. he looked identical to a BC but had some lacing going on on his chest...I test mated him to a Barred Rock (a genetically bird) and got blue babies.

Thanks! Now it is all clear! I should probably tell any buyer that there is the possibility that the blacks COULD be a really dark blue. I need more pens.... Now I just need eggs so I can start breeding these lookers

*edited to rephrase*
Well.....in my case I would dislcose that because I know for certain that I have a bird that throws very dark offspring. I don't know that you would need to say it, unless you have it happen, anything is possible. *If you are running both your black copper and blue copper together then you would disclose that the offspring produced will be blue and black..that should be clear as mud for buyers because then they know they will be getting both colors.*
I can usually tell a couple days after hatch if they are dark blue or if they are black, but sometimes it is very tricky...especially because of how dark my roo really is. I'll toss up his photo just for reference.

Here's a photo of my very dark Blue Copper roo Bill that was suppose to be a Black Copper. My bestest favorite most beloved roo, I don't care how many faults this guy has or doesn't have....he will always be my boy. I loves him something fierce.

4 mos. old......see how "Black" he appeared??

Bill at 6 mos. old.....see the lacing on his chest.....the lacing is what made me wonder if he was truly a Black Copper.

Bill now.....though this photo makes him look like part turkey as Debbi would say....he really is a Marans and he really is a turkey..a turkey butt.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Black and Blue Marans are rare and hard to find.......so if you have them, then yes, I would keep them seperate from your Coppers.
It does not muddy the water having the blue gene......the blue gene is a dilute of black........all it does is change everything that would have normally been black on a bird to blue. With the Coppers it does not change the copper pattern on the Black Coppers or the Blue Coppers, but a double dose of the blue gene (which creates a Splash) will affect the coppering on a Splash Copper bird.....it interupts the pattern and a person may only see flecks of copper. This is not the same with solid black, blue and splash birds as they do not have a pattern to interupt.
One copy of the blue gene dilutes black to blue, 2 copies of the blue gene dilutes even further to Splash.

Thanks... I don't have Blue or Black I have Blue Copper and Black Copper sorry for the confusion. SO a Black Copper from a FBCM x Blue Copper Marans is still a regular Black Copper and I don't need to explain that when I sell them? they would never produce a Blue Copper if breed to another Black Copper from that same mating?

Donna, If you breed the BC from a Blue Copper back into your BC you will be adding blood to your BC that is not genetically as good as the BC. The BC are the best type and have been worked with more than any of the other color patterns. I would never put BC from blue copper matings back into BC matings. If you do not want to use them in your blue copper matings then I would cull to the freezer.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Thanks... I don't have Blue or Black I have Blue Copper and Black Copper sorry for the confusion. SO a Black Copper from a FBCM x Blue Copper Marans is still a regular Black Copper and I don't need to explain that when I sell them? they would never produce a Blue Copper if breed to another Black Copper from that same mating?

Donna, If you breed the BC from a Blue Copper back into your BC you will be adding blood to your BC that is not genetically as good as the BC. The BC are the best type and have been worked with more than any of the other color patterns. I would never put BC from blue copper matings back into BC matings. If you do not want to use them in your blue copper matings then I would cull to the freezer.

Ahh....and this is where I respectfully disagree with my friend Don.

 

[Debbi]

Pink, You know he's part turkey!

I've got to get an updated pic of Myron, my dark blue Bill boy. I am liking him more and more, except for his comb. What is it with combs all of a sudden?? His is not a stupid comb, but he's got like 9 points going on!

I do, however, like the style of his comb, it is very clean and sits well off the neck like it should.

Rippy ~ Here is a pic of my two Blue Copper boys from Pink. JR on the left is the regularly colored blue copper, Myron on the right is a very dark blue/mahogany boy. Like Bill, Myron looked black as a young chick, then would look blue some days and black other days. When his bottom fluff came in, it was obvious to me he was indeed blue. This is an older pic taken probably 2 months ago.

 

[Debbi]

Pink, that reminds me. Did you ever figure out whose line(s) Bill came from?? Could he have been some of Valentine's?

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
Thanks... I don't have Blue or Black I have Blue Copper and Black Copper sorry for the confusion. SO a Black Copper from a FBCM x Blue Copper Marans is still a regular Black Copper and I don't need to explain that when I sell them? they would never produce a Blue Copper if breed to another Black Copper from that same mating?

Donna, If you breed the BC from a Blue Copper back into your BC you will be adding blood to your BC that is not genetically as good as the BC. The BC are the best type and have been worked with more than any of the other color patterns. I would never put BC from blue copper matings back into BC matings. If you do not want to use them in your blue copper matings then I would cull to the freezer.

I agree with you Don. It is just creating more problems.....which BC's don't need.

Walt

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Donna, If you breed the BC from a Blue Copper back into your BC you will be adding blood to your BC that is not genetically as good as the BC. The BC are the best type and have been worked with more than any of the other color patterns. I would never put BC from blue copper matings back into BC matings. If you do not want to use them in your blue copper matings then I would cull to the freezer.

I agree with you Don. It is just creating more problems.....which BC's don't need.

Walt

Walt,

I'm not sure why you and Don feel that way. If I can ever get over my comb problems here, and no, it wasn't from Blue Coppers, it came with my BCMs, my Blue Coppers have looked more consistent body wise than more of my BCMs. Needless to say, if you breed a faulty bird of any color, you are going to get more of the same, but why would you discount putting the BCMs produced from blues back into the BCM flock? What problems do you see them getting? I can't imagine my road getting any bumpier than it has been with Marans...

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
I agree with you Don. It is just creating more problems.....which BC's don't need.

Walt

Walt,

I'm not sure why you and Don feel that way. If I can ever get over my comb problems here, and no, it wasn't from Blue Coppers, it came with my BCMs, my Blue Coppers have looked more consistent body wise than more of my BCMs. Needless to say, if you breed a faulty bird of any color, you are going to get more of the same, but why would you discount putting the BCMs produced from blues back into the BCM flock? What problems do you see them getting? I can't imagine my road getting any bumpier than it has been with Marans...

Any time you add another color to an existing fixed color, you are going to end up on a bumpy road. While one of the best male Marans I have seen so far has blue in him, the type on most of the Marans with blue in the background have type that is not as good as the BC's. I can't see adding anything to a bird that has the potential of moving you backwards in your breeding plan unless it is an trait you really need to correct another problem. The comb is one of the last things that I would be concerned with unless it has DQ's.

This is just my opinion and I'm lazy, so I try not to make additional work for myself.

Walt