Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[3riverschick]

VillageChicken : GS and Pyle are both e+ based. How do you get a correctly colored BTB if they are supposed to be wheaten based?
From what I understand BTB is Wheaten + Db or Co? plus red enhancers. Are you able to get the right wing markings and no black in the hackle with an e+ based bird?
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Hi VillageChicken,
e+ and Wh have an uneasy color alliance. They can swap color back and forth in the birds from generation to generation, even blend them. But there is not the difficulty in in segregating them back from each other again that one sees when ER is in the mix. I need to get my notes out to give a more complete answer. Personally, I think BTB should not have any Co in it. Rather Db/Db. Otherwise the plumage hue is too light if Co is there. I know the Austalian BTB use Co. Db can act like a Columbian gene.
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Ok, I went back and looked at my notes. I mispoke when i said White Pyle Marans. I should have said White Red Marans which look like a Pyle bird. However the White Red marans are a Black Copper bird with a white gene. So I guess there is BC behind my girls after all. I had thought Golden Salmon was half the foundation for the White Red Marans project. I will have to check further on that.

Best Regards,
Karen
---------from my notes---------

Dr. Carefoot on family of 3 hues.

http://tinyurl.com/6ggz9hn Page 122. This URL takes you to page 123 and need to
back-page one page. Title of the section is"Genetic Basis for Some Columbian
Restricted Phenotpyes.". Very interesting. Basically what this expert along with
others I have read, is telling us is that we are working with a color pattern(a
family of hues) which basically shows up in three shades. Light, darker and
darkest. For BTB Marans, we want the New Hampshire hue with is the middle of the three. We want
it based on eWh ( Wheaten gene) not eb(Brown gene) or eb( recessive Wheaten
gene). That often, this middle colored hue(New Hampshire) is found expressing
the Co gene which gives it a lighter more even coloring. From what I have read,
multiple experts are saying the best middle hue(New Hampshire) is created by
either Db/Co or Db/Db. Db is Dark Brown (because it turns black to dark brown)
and Co(the columbian restrictor which moves black from the body to the hackle and
tail). Mh is also present in New Hampshire and it sorta acts like a columbian
restrictor too.
-
As I read it, please correct me if I am wrong, this article also states that
the correct color hue can can be either on genes which are homozygous, Ewh, eb
or ey. or heterozygous eWh/eb ; eWh/e+ ; or?
Best,
Karen

 

[VillageChicken]

No, you were right, overmelanized means too much black. But in most pure BC the overmelanization is in an overblack hackle, particularly in hens, and black on the top of the head, which usually indicates the presence of melanotic.

Yours probably is overmelanized, but she has white in the wrong places for her to be an overmelanized birchen, IMHO.

I've not seen any color in the breast of an overmelanized pure birchen, unless it's lacing which would indicate the columbian gene. Your hen looks like she has light shafts which is the opposite of lacing.

Quote:
The white in the breast would suggest they are not overmelanized, but rather birchens with wheaten or something else. That triangle of black the chin almost looks like they could have Ameraucana or something with the beard gene.

Folks here call that white pattern "shafting". It's usually an indicator of a cross.

VC~

Glad you caught my post. I hadn't notice the triangle looking pattern under the chin on that girl. I will look at them closer in the next day to determine if its feathering or the angle of the pictures.

So that I am using the correct terminology; Overmelenized refers to more of the (coppery or silver) color hackle feathering? What term is used for under colored feathering? Or in this case, mostly black?

Thanks again,

 

[berkeleysprings]

sure sounds like bc are a hard color to work with ! most sincerly and no offence . thanks for listening thos message brought to you by your lazy wheaten breeder lol lol transmitting from the foot hills of west by God virginia. i know i know shut up randy! ( as i crawl back to lonely wheaten thred)

 

[flgardengirl]

Here is a pic of a Red/White Marans I saw at the Newnan,GA show. It was the first Marans I've ever seen in person, colored this way.

Here are some other colors that I saw that maybe some of the new people haven't seen before:
Male Salmon

Female BTB

Male BTB

 

[math ace]

Quote:

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:

Personally, I found this part of the comment to be the high point

 

[flgardengirl]

Now here is my boy that I think might be BTB He was young in this pic and he is way buffer/redder looking now similar to the one above. If you look down toward his shanks they are a light color and have good feathering if nothing else LOL. He has a fugly comb though, not carnation but just thick. This is the one I was calling Agent Orange when he was a chick. One of his brothers had the lighter shanks as well but colored like a BCM otherwise. He came from the bayhorsebonnie line which I am keeping separate from my others until I get this all figure out and experiment a little more.

Here is Cuckoo Baby who I was told is a Barred BTB he is lighter probably than he should be and unfeathered shanks. He does have a nice comb. He is my favorite roo regardless ;P I wish I had a BTB girl for these two just so I could experiment a little. He came from a breeder in WA

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Is it just me or does the White Red Marans have wonky blade on his comb and also a sprig?
I figured out how to work my handy dandy pink highlighter thingy again to point out the possible sprig, hope you don't mind Flgarden.
Looking at flgardens original photo it is easier to spot, but the arrow gives a person the general area to look in.

 

[Hens and Roos]

Quote:
Has anyone found this book available in hard copy? It seems that it is not being published currently.

 

[gilavina]

Quote:
Is it just me or does the White Red Marans have wonky blade on his comb and also a sprig?
I figured out how to work my handy dandy pink highlighter thingy again to point out the possible sprig, hope you don't mind Flgarden.
Looking at flgardens original photo it is easier to spot, but the arrow gives a person the general area to look in.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/fo...e_red_marans_newnan_geo_show_flgarden_pic.jpg

I think you are right ma'am