Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[3riverschick]

Hi guys, I ordered some Mixed Maran eggs, they all hatched yesterday but im not sure what breed of maran they are. Theres two different kinds.

Hi,

Unfortunately, this isn't a Golden Salmon (e+/e+ s+/S- (s-). At best, looks like an e+/eWh cross. Really, it isn't any recognized color, just a barnyard mix of Marans genes, like you ordered.
Proper Golden Salmon are very rare because the entire color pallette is recessive genes. There are folks out there touting Red Duckwings (Golden Salmon with a Mh gene) as Golden Salmon, but they are incorrect. There are no hypostatic genes in Golden Salmon. Every other gene, modifier or diluter than e+ or s+ (s- in the females) corrupts Golden Salmon and it is then a completely different color. The head stripe on this chick isn't crisp and clean in outline. There look to be two Co gene dots on the top of its head. Neither are the back stripes crisp and clean. They are muddied by the effect of one or two additional genes. The head stripe also doesn't look like it extends complely down the nape of the neck to join the back stripe ( this is caused by a gene additional to e+ or s+.
------------------
Here are some explanatory URL's with much thanks to http://edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html .

Gene names: Extended Black​

The E locus Chick/Down Colur Pattern
Below are the most common elocus genes.
Genes: E, ER, eWh, e+, eb, ebc, ey
Gene names: Extended Black, Birchen, Dominant Wheaten, Wild type, Partridge or Brown, Buttrcup, Recessive Wheaten.
Phenotypes: Dark Grey, Birchen Grey, Wheaten, Black breatsed Red (salmon-breasted hen), Partridge (brown-breasted hen), Buttercup, Clay Wheaten.
http://www.edelras.nl/belgians/pics/elocus.jpg
Above are the typical e locus down patterns, without
columbian-like restrictors (except maybe ebc chick).
Columbian (Co) will change the appearance of e+ & eb down,
but not E, ER & eWh. Both E & ER down are indistinguishable,
with variation from all black (eumelanin) to black with
white as shown above.
==========================
Black Breasted Red Jungle Fowl Old English Game Fowl (this is what
proper Golden Salmon should look like. The coloring on the chick down is definitive for GS. )
http://www.efowl.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=2067

This chick looks like a visual combination of e+ and eWh.

Best Regards,
Karen in western PA

 

[geebs]

 

[3riverschick]

Coool explaination...

I knew there was several presentation that appear like "duckwing" but this gentic soup could be used to create Columbian perhaps??? I have had 3 different presentation that as adult either look like barnevelder, brown leghorns or Welsummers.... All look like their counterparts as chickies... I would say this presentation looks the most like brown leghorns... Just a phenotypical observation.

Studying Golden Salmon Marans by using Brown Leghorn lit takes a lot of discernment. By that I mean there are two Brown Leghorns. The Dark Brown which is eb based and the hen has a penciled, the cock with stripes in his hackle. The Light Brown Leghorn is e+ based (it's just like the Golden Salmon). The female is stippled with a salmon breast, the male with no stripes in his hackle. Judge Card, in his book on Breeding Laws ( see http://www.archive.org ) provides an eloquent discussion on the differences in breeding methods for the 2 varieties. Early on,the 2 varieties were both double-mated to achieve show stock. Later on (20's?,30's?) folk figured out how to single mate the for show. Often in the early lit, the authors switched which variety they were talking about in the middle of an article without alerting the reader. So one need to read Judge Card's book (the chapter on "Breeding the Stippled and Penciled Breeds") and know the rules before they consult the old Brown Leghorn lit , or it gets real confusing. Still. it is worth it to understand the effect of the male's coloring on the coloring of the female .
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Coool explaination...

I knew there was several presentation that appear like "duckwing" but this gentic soup could be used to create Columbian perhaps??? I have had 3 different presentation that as adult either look like barnevelder, brown leghorns or Welsummers.... All look like their counterparts as chickies... I would say this presentation looks the most like brown leghorns... Just a phenotypical observation.

Creating Columbian? Hum.. The Co gene shouldn't exist in the interplay of e+ Golden Salmon; Wheaten (eWh); and Black-Tailed Buff ( which should have Db/Db , not Co/Co { as the Aussie BTB } or Co/Db). I know BTB Marans look like they have a Columbian restrictor but instead it's Mh plus 2 doses of Db. Per Okimoto, 2 doses of Db act as a Columbian type restrictor. Paintedbones , Lynnrae Troples from Pennsylvania , http://www.hpbaa.com/Painted_Bones_Art.html
is the only person I know who has years of experience working to develop a strain of Ermine(Columbian) Marans. Might ask her.
Best,
Karen

 

[geebs]

 

[Cadeau]

evening all

Inside early due to freezing rain!

Vicki - sent you some psychedelic pics! Hopefully you can see some nice birds in there!

 

[gilavina]

evening all

Inside early due to freezing rain!

Vicki - sent you some psychedelic pics! Hopefully you can see some nice birds in there!

I just saw that I have a few emails from you. I'll check them out here in a bit. I just spent the last half an hour trying to remember ANY info on an old student loan that got bought out so I could get my tax forms. About drove me insane...it kept looping me in circles!

 

[Debbi]

Hi all, glad to be back in the chicken realm! Too much stress for me the last few days over the truck, and other things. The truck fared better than I thought it would!

Still in limbo with the other problem, but I've bolstered myself, so all is well so far. DMRippy, hope you got my PM, the parcel was sent yesterday.

Geebs! Glad to see you here, you've been MIA for quite awhile!! Hope all is well.

Had a small power outage the other night, and it seems to have slowed down my Silkie hatch. Got 4 so far with 2 more pips, but nothing else at day 25. Will give them another day before pulling the plug.

Lynette ~ Yeah on the Silkies laying!! I collected 8 eggs today from the Silkie pen, they are out laying the Marans by far! Do your Silkie girls try burying their eggs?? I've noticed mine do. Maybe they are trying to hide them from me collecting them, as in trying to go broody?? No one has a hissy fit when I collect the eggs, but then again, they are all so sweet. I'm still getting one or two eggs per day from my free range Marans, in the Priority box on the front porch too! That is, if the cats don't find them first!!

 

[gilavina]

Hi all, glad to be back in the chicken realm! Too much stress for me the last few days over the truck, and other things. The truck fared better than I thought it would!

Still in limbo with the other problem, but I've bolstered myself, so all is well so far. DMRippy, hope you got my PM, the parcel was sent yesterday.

Geebs! Glad to see you here, you've been MIA for quite awhile!! Hope all is well.

Had a small power outage the other night, and it seems to have slowed down my Silkie hatch. Got 4 so far with 2 more pips, but nothing else at day 25. Will give them another day before pulling the plug.

Lynette ~ Yeah on the Silkies laying!! I collected 8 eggs today from the Silkie pen, they are out laying the Marans by far! Do your Silkie girls try burying their eggs?? I've noticed mine do. Maybe they are trying to hide them from me collecting them, as in trying to go broody?? No one has a hissy fit when I collect the eggs, but then again, they are all so sweet. I'm still getting one or two eggs per day from my free range Marans, in the Priority box on the front porch too! That is, if the cats don't find them first!!

Debbi! Yay! Glad to see you back on here and that you are safe and sound for another day!
I've been running behind all week, but I've got the incubator up and running and turned it on last night, and set the turners on auto while I'm still making sure its going to hold steady for temp and so far so good with the turning. I am still going to run a test hatch to see how it goes. Getting excited to see what I end up with. Its going to be my mystery hatch.

 

[Debbi]

Good deal Vicki! Good luck on the hatch, let's hope for some gooduns!

Lost my JR last night. All that was left was a pile of feathers, 25' further, 3 more feathers, then nothing. My dog Otho kept going to the old shed and coming back to look at me, so went over there; more feathers. Seems whatever got him, and I'm expecting a Fox, is now under the shed. The dog kept leading me over there all day, and seriously sniffing around like the perp was still under there. Three more roos would not go into the run tonight, so there may be another one gone by morning. Didn't hear a sound last night, neither did the dogs, and since the whole carcass was gone, I'm assuming fox. Coyotes wouldn't go under the shed, coons eat just so much and leave a carcass as do possums, and bobcats are too shy about the dogs and lights around here. Guess the trap will be set tomorrow for the varmint... Pip roosts up on the front porch, hope the other two do the same... Luckily, all the hens are coming into the run right away now when called up! Olivia is sad, cause JR was her roost buddy.