Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[stoopid]

There is a judge with very long hair... I don't have his name in front of me...

 

[stoopid]

Math ace, check out judging with the runner ducks. That's cool, too!

 

[Arielle]

OBTW, the Judging of the Seramas was one of the coolest things that I saw at Newnan.
The folks would come up, hand the clerk their card, toss their bird on the table, pose them, and the judge would rattle points for each catergory of scoring. IT was so TOTALLY COOL!

The large fowl are just place - - 1st, 2nd, 3rd, whatever, BUT the with the seramas... you could see where the judge thought they were weak or strong. LOVED IT!

I like this format. It is used in judging breeding stock for the Dutch warmbloods and the head inspector verbally reports on each individual. A great learning experience. Really help hone your eye.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

So sorry, trying to wrap my brain around this. I don't understand exactly how the feather leg genes work. In fact I think I read that there are several factors as well as inhibitors...

So what would be two ideals birds to use in regards to feather legs? When both have nice and heavy feathering it is easy for offspring to show up with too much feathering? So better to breed two birds that have "just enough" feathering? Would an over feathered roo compensate for an under feathered hen? Does it work like that?

Christie, I got this from VillageChicken awhile ago. I hope he doesn't mind me posting it here:

The feathered shanks have two loci. Technically they are called pti-1 and pti-2. Marans shank feathering is found at the pti-1 allele. pti-2 is for cochin type feathering and is an additional gene that gets added to pti-1 for the heavy cochin feathers.

It gets confusing because at the pti-1 locus there are THREE alleles. So it would be like if at the skin color locus, there were a third variation for pink skin.

At pti-1 there is the recessive (no feathers) gene, a Langshan type gene and a Brahma type gene. Langshan - outer toe feathered, Brahma - adds middle toe feathered. So any one of these 3 genes can be present at this allele. Actually since almost all genes are in pairs, you can have any TWO of these 3 genes at the pti-1 allele.

So you can have the recessive clean shank gene paired up with a Lanshan type - that would be heterozygous for Langshan type feathering. Or clean shank gene with the Brahma type - heterozygous for Brahma type feathering.

You can even have the Langshan paired up with the Brahma type.

The phenotype (what it looks like) is not always predictable or consistent. The heterozygous Lanshan could have very light feathering. The heterozygous Brahma type actually LOOKS like the homozygous Langshan type. This confuses many folks in the Marans world. In other words, if your bird carries one clean shank gene, and one feathered shank with middle toe feathers gene, it might have perfect Marans lightly feathered shanks. But paired with a genetically correct marans that has two Langshan type feathering genes, you will produce sparsely feathered shanks, and middle toe feathers from two "correctly" feathered parents.

Add to this mix the fact that there are known recessive inhibitors that suppress feathered shanks even when the feathering genes are present. So you may have parent birds with correct pti-1 Langshan genes, but if they each have one recessive inhibitor gene (you need two recessives for them to work) you will find offspring that are clean shanked.

This fall I single mated my wheatens and BC's and will never use a rooster with anything on his middle toes. I crossed a middle toe feathered roo with a very lightly feathered hen, and got almost all middle toe feathered offspring. Some that had fuzz on the toes at hatch aren't showing feathers now, but I know the messed up genes are in there.

I also paired two correctly feathered wheatens, and got middle toe feathers on about 1/3rd of the chicks.

Feathered shanks can be a big challenge to get right, to get it to breed true, without tons of culling.

One more thing that makes these Marans one tough bird to get right.

 

[Debbi]

Wow, VC can put it in terms even I can understand. Like I said before, in plainer English, it pops up from time to time with nice x nice feathered birds. Cull when it does or breed those types to naked legged birds, and try again! Don brought up a good point. I think the roos have a lot more influence and are capable of passing on more good points and faults. Not saying to breed a crap hen to a really nice roo and expect great things, but a really nice roo will pass on the good stuff to the offspring faster than a better hen and a mediocre roo. Gees, did that make any sense at all??

 

[chickeneyfoot]

Hi guys! I have solid blue marans no copper mixing in them! Their darkest egg is a. 5- 6 and lowest a 3 how do i improve them without using copper? Thanks

 

[Debbi]

Vicki ~ I just put the chooks away...hmm, make that chook! It is sooooo quiet out here it is eery! Roy is back to strutting his stuff unemcumbered by a mess of culls roos in the way! The poor younger cockerel and his 2 sisters are sad and confused, having lost two of their siblings. They look absolutely lost, and are really sticking close together. The older girls are doing a happy dance, knowing they won't be constantly hunted down! As for me, my feed bill should drop in half, and I don't have to keep looking over my shoulder waiting to be flogged by Blue Butt!

 

[gilavina]

Hey Debbi! Are you still doing the happy dance at all your new pen space?! I know I would be!

And me thinks we should see if we can get VC to do regular installments of that kind of stuff...the plain english of it is a life saver for absorbing things in the old noggin!

 

[desertmarcy]

I have a question about the middle toe feathering. If they have one or two feathers showing when just hatched, will these disappear or will they grow more? Just wondering if those very few feathers on the chicks is a reason to cull them. My birds do have very nice feathering, so I'm wondering if that is why I am seeing this on the chicks--as you say, a fine line. Thanks for your input.

I didn't explain that very good did I, When you get the feathering real nice and heavy it is a very fine line not to get the middle toe feathering and the fuzz on the webs. I would not breed one of the over feathered female. In case of an emergency you could breed the over feathered male and probably get away with it , Best policy is just cull the over feathered soon as you spot them. No way you can show these and win with them so why even keep them . You could possibly raise some good fowl but you will get more junk that good one's.

 

[Arielle]

THanks for the post Barn GOddess. I was asking about this over on the BCM thread.