Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Wynette]

Okay, regarding the mulberry or red face - I am not intending to open up a can of worms, but I've spoken with Bev Davis (president of the MCCUSA, the organization responsible for putting for the standards for the breed) in regard to face color (again...go to the source...) I've let her know that Walt indicated mulberry face is what we should be breeding for in Birchen, and here is her reply:

The club follows the same standard as the French do and I have never read anything about gypsy or mulberry faces on the French site. I believe the reason for the dark faces is because the bird is carrying too many melanisers.

Thoughts? Again, I'm not trying to stir controversy, and I don't even have Birchen (though they are lovely and I'd love to have some one day) - but the "too many melanisers" piques my interest due to so many folks have overmelanised Black Coppers. What do we think? I've also contacted Rodney Reeves, who has been breeding Birchens for several years now, to see what his thoughts are on these questions. I'll share what I learn from that conversation as well. (Don - I believe Rodney will be at the Columbus show.)

 

[Wynette]

What happened to the Marans USA site?
http://maransusa.org/

The site was changed to www.marans.org some time ago.

 

[gilavina]

Vicki, Hope Walt will comment on this question. If I remember right when the Wheaten were accepted was told they were trying to close up new breeds that were coming into the APA . I myself am in favor of unifying the varieties so when you are thinking about breeding some show type fowl it would be a unified program. I believe he was only referring to new breeds and not the already approved breeds. What walts has stated about the Birchen comes straight from the SOP and is what will be expect for the Birchen Marans Standard.

Thanks Don, you are confirming what has been bothering me over this last year. I, also am for the unifying of the varieties as well, so have kept coming back to it over and over again and finally decided I better start saying something. I don't want it to get all the way to the qualifying meet and find out that we've culled things we should have kept. In any variety, I do believe the birchen coloring with the darker features is very striking indeed. I hope Walt will continue to take part in the discussion as well, so it is clear what will be expected. I'm hoping for very good things to come out of all of this!

 

[Wynette]

Vicki, Hope Walt will comment on this question. If I remember right when the Wheaten were accepted was told they were trying to close up new breeds that were coming into the APA . I myself am in favor of unifying the varieties so when you are thinking about breeding some show type fowl it would be a unified program.

Don, can you expand on this? Do you mean, so that the Birchen variety in ANY breed shares the same phenotype (appears the same, would use the same basic descriptions as far as color/markings)? If so, I'd definitely be all for that!

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
I suppose one of us could leave a comment on the page letting them know that the Standard has been updated ....

Might help those looking in on the page down the road.

 

[gilavina]

Okay, regarding the mulberry or red face - I am not intending to open up a can of worms, but I've spoken with Bev Davis (president of the MCCUSA, the organization responsible for putting for the standards for the breed) in regard to face color (again...go to the source...) I've let her know that Walt indicated mulberry face is what we should be breeding for in Birchen, and here is her reply:

The club follows the same standard as the French do and I have never read anything about gypsy or mulberry faces on the French site. I believe the reason for the dark faces is because the bird is carrying too many melanisers.

Thoughts? Again, I'm not trying to stir controversy, and I don't even have Birchen (though they are lovely and I'd love to have some one day) - but the "too many melanisers" piques my interest due to so many folks have overmelanised Black Coppers. What do we think? I've also contacted Rodney Reeves, who has been breeding Birchens for several years now, to see what his thoughts are on these questions. I'll share what I learn from that conversation as well. (Don - I believe Rodney will be at the Columbus show.)

I'm curious to see what Walt and Don will have to say. My only thoughts on this so far is about following the french standard and etc. I can't see where we would adopt into the US standard something that varies too much from what is already listed in the color varieties. I also don't know 100% on the melanizers, my observation however is that I have less trouble getting the color on my birchens than I do the coppers.

 

[gilavina]

Don, can you expand on this? Do you mean, so that the Birchen variety in ANY breed shares the same phenotype (appears the same, would use the same basic descriptions as far as color/markings)? If so, I'd definitely be all for that!

yeah, you are on the right track Wynette. I do think it will help to clear up a lot of confusion in the future for breeds out there that share the same color varieties.

 

[pinkchick]

Okay, regarding the mulberry or red face - I am not intending to open up a can of worms, but I've spoken with Bev Davis (president of the MCCUSA, the organization responsible for putting for the standards for the breed) in regard to face color (again...go to the source...)  I've let her know that Walt indicated mulberry face is what we should be breeding for in Birchen, and here is her reply:

[SIZE=13.5pt][COLOR=000000]The club follows the same standard as the French do and I have never read anything about gypsy or mulberry faces on the French site.  I believe the reason for the dark faces is because the bird is carrying too many melanisers.[/COLOR][/SIZE]


Thoughts?  Again, I'm not trying to stir controversy, and I don't even have Birchen (though they are lovely and I'd love to have some one day) - but the "too many melanisers" piques my interest due to so many folks have overmelanised Black Coppers.  What do we think?  I've also contacted Rodney Reeves, who has been breeding Birchens for several years now, to see what his thoughts are on these questions.  I'll share what I learn from that conversation as well.  (Don - I believe Rodney will be at the Columbus show.)

Wynette~ Thanks for asking Bev and thanks for posting this. I eagerly await the conversation to follow. A question I have is why try to breed the Birchen Marans so completely different than the other varieties? All other varieties of Marans are to have pumpkin/orangey eyes and red faces and such....the black eyes and mulberry faces to me just does not seem right for the Marans.

 

[snowbird]

Don, can you expand on this? Do you mean, so that the Birchen variety in ANY breed shares the same phenotype (appears the same, would use the same basic descriptions as far as color/markings)? If so, I'd definitely be all for that!

Wynette, When the Wheaten were eccepted by APA I had a conversation with Walt and he stated they were trying close up the variences with new breeds coming into the APA. I agree with this myself . Just makes more sense to have a uniform description for each Variety.

This way we can make decisions on what we need to do breeding wise to get SOP type fowl. With some of these variety we will need to use fowl in the brood pen that are not up to the standard, that is fine as thats the way it has been done since I have had poultry.

 

[gilavina]

Wynette~ Thanks for asking Bev and thanks for posting this. I eagerly await the conversation to follow. A question I have is why try to breed the Birchen Marans so completely different than the other varieties? All other varieties of Marans are to have pumpkin/orangey eyes and red faces and such....the black eyes and mulberry faces to me just does not seem right for the Marans.

Hey Kim,

If you look through the APA, any time you come across birchen, no matter the breed, you will see it is like what Walt said. This is my main reason for bringing any of this up. I also have to admit, I've seen some trends when following different paths of choosing matings, that the mulberry naturally comes out.
I, too, am very excited to see how things are going to play out as I believe it is very important to know exactly what we are to be breeding for and to expect at the qualifying meet and for our breeding programs.